Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday is a podcast where we dive into what our Church is up to, what's happening in society, go deeper into topics from Sunday mornings, and hear leadership talks and coffee break theology from Pastor Greg Griffith. This is a podcast of King of Kings Church in Omaha & Fremont, Nebraska. Learn more at kingofkings.org.
Beyond Sunday
Sinners Anonymous — Week 1
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Pastor Seth hosts with Kate and Julie, starting off the new Sinners Anonymous series by looking at Jonah’s story through the lens of confession, addiction, and God’s grace. They explore how admitting our need is the first step toward freedom, and how Jesus meets us with hope even in the middle of our deepest struggles.
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Thanks for listening!
Welcome And Setting The Tone
SPEAKER_00Welcome everybody. It is time to go beyond Sunday. It's time to get back in the word and go even deeper. And I have some legit guests today. Woohoo! So I know we've had other descriptors. Uh Kate is of my same generation, so she's actually making the MC Hammer too legit to quit.
SPEAKER_01Legit to quit.
SPEAKER_00Which any Gen Xer would know exactly what those hand signals mean and would appreciate where you're coming from. All right. So I do have two legit guests today. Would you please introduce yourselves? Hello, Julie Easley.
SPEAKER_04Kate Solberg.
SPEAKER_00Well, that was kind of like I was hoping for like you were going with the MC Hammer theme and be like Jam Master J to my left.
SPEAKER_04And it'd be so awkward.
SPEAKER_00That'd be even better.
SPEAKER_04I need way more time to think about that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so we're going beyond Sunday, but we ought to start with a little bit of something so that you can reveal a little bit about who you are so that folks get to learn people here at King of Kings and our leadership. So here's my big question for you. Dina gave me options here because she's typically the host. Her first option was about National Burger Day coming up, but I was like, oh, burger, that's pretty good. But here's another one coming up. This is on purpose.
SPEAKER_03Oh boy, I'm gonna get nervous. You're really thinking.
SPEAKER_00National silence appreciation day.
SPEAKER_04Oh.
SPEAKER_00Hence the long pregnant pause. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Like I was like, did he forget? What's happening?
SPEAKER_00This is the key to all podcasts. Awkward silence. I think that's the key to really going from 17 listeners to 19 listeners.
SPEAKER_02Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00It's just asking, did Seth have a minor stroke? Like, I think that's a thing that push it over the top.
SPEAKER_03Just listening out of concern.
SPEAKER_00Are our leadership people okay?
Learning To Live With Silence
SPEAKER_00All right. So here's my question: how comfortable or uncomfortable are you right now in your life with silence? And the reason why I ask it that way is because I've learned that people at different stages of their life are either okay or not okay with silence. So uh we'll go with you, Kate, first.
SPEAKER_04Well, this is a very pertinent question because I just sent my youngest to college and it is me and the dog that live in the house now. So I have no choice. I do, I don't mind. I feel like the older you get, the more comfortable you are with silence. In my case, like I I I don't know, it's delightful. Um I'm also watching, I also didn't know really how to watch TV until now. And now I have like time in the evenings. I'm like, what am I supposed to do?
SPEAKER_00You can actually like keep with the plot of what's going on rather than ask answer 100 questions.
SPEAKER_04Well, I just I don't I don't even know what to watch. And so in this stage of life, I'm watching the show alone.
SPEAKER_00Ooh. Oh yeah. Yep, that's a good one.
SPEAKER_04And I'm watching how silence can actually make some people crazy.
SPEAKER_00Well, you got to kind of wonder, are they crazy already for applying to that show?
SPEAKER_04But right, right. So yeah, and I always if if when I'm going through a difficult phase of life, which it's kind of hard adjusting to empty nest, I like like to focus on people who seem like they're going through a more difficult phase of life. And I cannot imagine being dropped in the middle of nowhere with like 10 items in my backpack. No, so I'm quite impressed with these people, but it is crazy what aloneness and silence can do to somebody and your brain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And for me, it's not, I mean, I know I'm gonna go to work, I can see people, I can call people, so I'm definitely not even close to the situations they're in. So I can appreciate silence, but I surely appreciate being able to get up and go to work and see humans.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, Julie, what do we got?
SPEAKER_03I think it just depends on well, I I do like being alone in the house by myself. I agree. I think that's so nice. But um I think it depends on the relationship with the person, right? You can ride in the car with your spouse in silence for long periods of time and not even think about it. But if you're on the phone with someone you've never met and need to communicate something, if there's a drop or a lull, I feel like I need to fill it. So I think it's situational for me.
SPEAKER_00All right. I found that as um I get a little bit older, I'm more and more comfortable with silence outside of myself. But the difficulty that I've been having is actually exercising silence in my own heart, in my own head, because sometimes it doesn't matter how quiet things are outside of my head if there's like 900 decibels of like conversation and demand and stuff going on. So, you know, uh of recent, um, typically I would listen to stuff while I'm running, and sometimes I still do listen to a book or listen to the scriptures. Uh, but I've actually been trying to practice just like calming my own heart and seeing where the Lord speaks in the quiet moment. Because otherwise, it is there's a lot going on, I'm sure, in all of our noggins, processing everything that the Lord is asking us to do. So,
Authenticity And Coming Clean
SPEAKER_00all right. Well, silence can sometimes be very awkward as well. And I would say that there were elements of the message this morning that might make us feel a little bit awkward. And I believe that was Zach's intent as he discussed the beginning of the message is that it might, like he might come out there and I'm gonna say some things and I'm gonna make some confession. And how did that make you feel? Comes out of that. So that's our bridge and our segue into the sermon uh from this past weekend. So I want to know overall from that message. It could be awkward, it could be natural, whatever it is. Uh, let's see, Julie.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What are you taking beyond Sunday?
SPEAKER_03I think what I'm really excited about with this message series and and and this message in particular was just really leaning into our church's value of being authentic. And how do we do that? And a big part of that is just coming clean about who we actually are. And there's a freedom in that. Christ is is our righteousness when we believe in Christ. We're clothed in his righteousness, and so there doesn't need to be shame around that. But people do feel shame around their sins. So how do we start to unpack that in a in a in a family context as a church? And so um I I'm just really excited about the potentialities of some significant life change for people out of this message and and this whole series.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I
Addiction Stats And Ripple Effects
SPEAKER_04would agree. I I was shocked by the stat that Zach gave us. 45 million Americans aged 12 and older either struggle with just drug or alcohol addiction in the United States. I was like, dang, that's so many people.
SPEAKER_00And and he was wise to then bring in that's not counting food addictions, work addictions, uh gambling, which I think actually is probably gonna be the next big wave of confrontation that people are gonna struggle with. But keep going, this is good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, that just that stat. And and how Zach talked about it's you're never just affecting just you, you know, like there's a ripple effect to addiction that affects the people around them. So then when you think about those 45 million plus the people around them, like that's a huge part of our population.
SPEAKER_03So and what that really represents. So anybody that's struggling with those things, and right, everybody struggles to a degree with some sort of addiction, whether it's to our phone or really, you know, name you name it. What it speaks to is there's a hole somewhere that's not being filled. And so just the ramifications of that or the implications of that, I should say, it's just like, wow, there's just a lot of pain out in the world, and people are trying to deal with it in a variety of different ways.
SPEAKER_04A hole, or like Satan's deceived you to believe that you need that thing. Or I don't know. I I'm I'm not expert in addiction at all, but it's just the small misconceptions that you believe, I think, that leads to that addiction. You know, like it's oh, it's just one time, you know, or it's not gonna affect anyone but me. It's just all that misbelief that leads down that road.
SPEAKER_00That's interesting that you're bringing up like the the cyclical nature of just the smallest little falsehoods. But that's why the scriptures call us to take every thought captive. And I've learned that in my own life is that if there's something going really bad, first of all, you know, I've got to repent of that thing, whatever it is. Um, because keeping it to myself, keeping it a secret, that gives it even more power and that creates more shame in my own heart. Uh, but then you also have to have some kind of like follow-up life change so that you don't just throw yourself back into the gutter again. And just like keeping every thought captive to Christ, it is exhausting and it is draining, but it's worthwhile because it actually starts to free you from whatever that stronghold habit was. And I think that's what's really good about the the steps program. And uh Zach brought that out there. And I was wondering, Kate, since you have the 12 steps in front of you, would you mind reading what step one is
Step One And Powerless Over Sin
SPEAKER_00that Zach actually brought forward in this message as well?
SPEAKER_04Yes, step one. We admitted we are powerless over sin, that our lives have become unmanageable.
SPEAKER_00Our lives have become unmanageable. And what I like about this and what Zach also brought in is oftentimes we think these steps are for those people. Uh, not us, you know, like, oh, I've got it under control, it's not a big deal. It's for those people. I want you guys to reflect for just a second on how easy it is to see the problems in other people's lives, their addictions, their habits, but but have a huge blind spot for those same things in our own lives.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a dangerous prayer, but worthwhile, I think, when you ask God to reveal, you know, where where you're falling short. Like, Lord, would you please show me the air of my ways? But it's one of those prayers where I think that's what God desires for us is to refine us. And so when we ask that, he's gonna answer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And sometimes it's surprising, or you know, it's been the thing that you've been really good at ignoring or overstepping, you know, stepping over. Um, but very worthwhile. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's a chart that I've seen and actually have taught on a little bit in at um King of Kings University where it's when you first um become a believer, like the Jesus' sacrifice on the cross feels maybe small in a way to you, or you don't appreciate it as fully as you do later as you be going your journey with Jesus, right? Yes, mature. Um I but also I I think when you first start out, your your vision of your own sin is really small too. And then as you progress and become more mature, you realize, oh wow, wow, this sin goes really deep and it's pervasive and it's in tons of different areas. And you know, I found that like marriage is a great proving ground for like how sinful I am. Because right, even if Dale speaks to me in love about some area where I I could, you know, be better, it can I can meet him with a lot of defensiveness or just well, I don't see it that way. And so boy, there's always areas to grow, but I think as you continue to know Jesus more and as you get into scripture more, you just start seeing like the magnitude of your own sin and the preciousness of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for you become so much more valuable and meaningful and precious. So yeah, it's a journey.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting in that journey how it feels like I I gotta imagine it feels like being a minor uh in terms of like digging and then you find something. Yeah. But then you realize you can dig further and find more. Yes. But in our own hearts, we find that it's not always a positive journey. Like you might find that yes, the thing, whatever it is that you're involved in now was caused by some traumatic event early in life. Uh, and then you get that addressed. But then you realize, like, oh my goodness, there's there's something even deeper than that that caused me to be susceptible to uh taking on this habit. And so you got to go deeper and really uh and I wonder if that's what happens with maturity and discipleship as you grow, is it is far more of an inwardly focused journey on seeing how deep the love of Jesus can descend into who you really are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because it's even deeper than all of those root causes of engaging in so many sinful acts. And I wonder if this is kind of what Jesus is talking about as well, when he was like, you know, you're really preoccupied with the speck in that other dude's eye, but there's a giant log in your eye. If it's very similar, like there is a huge deposit of or very deep inside of your soul. And maybe, just maybe, if you focus on that more, you'll draw, be drawn even closer to me through his spirit. Uh I say that with some caution because it almost feels then like we're the main focus of the story. And one of the pieces of wisdom I appreciated about Zach is even towards the beginning of the message, he was like, the book of Jonah is about this guy. And on the count of three, who is the most important character? Three, two, one. And everybody was like, Jonah. And then at eight o'clock, yeah, somebody was like, the whale. Which caution, not a whale. It just says great fish. It does not say whale. Sorry, Veggie Dales. But that being said, we really realize that that entire book uh is not the focus of Jonah that focuses on God. And so I'm wondering, uh, Kate, as you think about the focus not necessarily being on the person who's having the struggle, but if the focus is on God, how does that help someone in that first step of the 12 steps? I'm going with you because you've got the 12 steps right in front of you. Right.
SPEAKER_04Right. Um They say like admitting is the first step. You know, if you think you got it all together, like I don't know, there's not nothing much is gonna change.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like if you can fix it, fix it.
SPEAKER_04Right, right. But to say like I'm powerless over sin, that leads directly to Jesus, I think. Like to say, like, I can't, I can't do this on my own. And apart from the Lord, we know we're nothing. Um so I don't know if I answered your question well.
SPEAKER_00No, I think that that was great. Julie, do you have anything to add?
SPEAKER_03I think you just realizing like if you feel like you have to secure your own righteousness or you have to be right on your own, it's gonna be really hard to admit you're doing wrong things because everything, right? You're you're trying to build up this this this false thing. Like, I've got to secure this by myself, I've got to be amazing by myself. And Jesus is like, look, my yoke is easy, my burden's like, you actually don't have to do that. My righteousness covers you, and therefore you can let down your guard and admit I I'm a sinful person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All right. So um, let's see.
Jonah Runs And The Storm Hits
SPEAKER_00Could we do a rapid fire recapping of the story of Jonah as it's been told so far? So I'll start it and then Julie, you pick up and then you stop, and then Kate, you go. Okay. All right. So so far, what we've got. We're trying to be creative and interactive here. 20, 20 listeners. That's what we're hoping for. Pregnant pause challenges. All right. So we're gonna start with Jonah. Uh, he is the son of Amitai. He is called by God uh to go and uh proclaim to Nineveh um, yet 40 days and Nineveh will be no more.
SPEAKER_03Right. And Jonah says, you know what? Actually, I don't think I feel like doing that. I don't like those people. So, Lord, even though you're telling me to do this, I'm gonna do something different. And how about if I get into a boat and run away from the place you're taking me to?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I love that there's even a little map, you know, up on the screen. Um, Nineveh was 550 miles from is it Jopa, Joppa?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, everybody says a difference. Okay. Just say with confidence.
SPEAKER_04From Joppa. There you go. And um Tarshish was 2,500 miles. And dang it, that's what we do. You know, we're the Lord's like, go this way. I'm gonna go that way. So anyway, there he gets in the ship going the wrong direction, way further than he should, and uh the storm starts. And um, everyone on the boat is like, okay, who's causing this? Whose God do you worship? And um, I love that, you know, Jonah says, I worship the God who created heaven and earth. Like he claimed the true God that he worships.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to listen to him, but he's great, he's the creator for all things, but he might be wrong right now.
SPEAKER_04And every every time I want to make fun of someone in the Old Testament, God's like, excuse me, you know, I'm like, I've done the same thing. Um, so anyway, uh yeah, Jonah, Jonah's pretty quick to confess, like, this is my fault. This storm is happening because of me. I should not be on this ship. I should be on a different ship going in a different direction. Throw me overboard. And man, I didn't ever realize that they were kind, gentle people who didn't want to do it. They're like, we don't really want to throw you overboard. And um, they do though.
SPEAKER_00And sure enough, okay, we will when it comes to saving your own skin.
SPEAKER_04Right. I can't imagine being on a ship thinking I'm gonna die. Because that's probably what they felt. And they're like, you know what, we're gonna do this. You know, he's pretty sure he's the cause of this problem. Out he goes, instantly the storm stops. You know, like, wow, you'd have to be like, wow, he was telling the truth. He does serve the true God. And so, yeah, did I go far enough?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. Well, one of the things that I think you guys probably noticed, I don't know if all of our listeners did, is that there were two words that we like pretty consecutively said or asked to repeat as Zach was reading through the narrative of Jonah. One was great, yep, but the other one was down, down, down, down. And you notice that like everything in the beginning of the narrative was going down, going down, going down. And the only time the word up comes up is when it's, hey, throw me up over the boat into this ocean, into this lake, or I'm sorry, into the sea. And so there's this turn that happens there. And that's where I think a lot of people might get this part of Jonah incorrect, where they think that um the great fish swallowing him is actually a part of punishment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like a low point.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. But actually, the low point happens before the great fish swallows him, where he's like, My head is encircled in Sheol, and the weeds of the depths they wrap around me. It's only after that point where he's picked up from the great fish. Picked up. Uh and so here's this we're gonna get to a point where the great fish vomits him up. So back, back up. Uh that's why I bring this up. When Zach and I were in school together at Concordia, Wisconsin, we're both in youth ministry there, like their formal youth ministry program. And every year, you got the opportunity to come forward with number one, a design for the t-shirts, and number two, like whatever that theme for the year was going to be. So, one of the years I had just like this picture of this giant whale mouth open. Now keep in mind this is clip art because this is way back in the day before graphic designers, and with like a little stick man coming out of it, and it was throwing it up for Jesus.
SPEAKER_02I love it. Did you do it? No.
SPEAKER_00It was um uh a seven up theme thing because that was one of those make seven up yours kind of like years, uh, make wine yours. It was something like that. But I was like, dang, that was a good idea. Throwing it up for Jesus would be great. I don't know how you put that into.
SPEAKER_03Maybe we're gonna get something like that for Christmas.
SPEAKER_00King of Kings Christmas party. Yeah, that'd be good.
Nineveh As Enemy And Assignment
SPEAKER_00All right. So uh going back to it though, he was supposed to go to Nineveh and uh Nineveh. Uh talk to a little bit about what you know of Nineveh, Nineveh from what Zach had talked about, or from what you know from your own study. Because it informs whether this Jonah guy is gonna really want to go and talk to the Ninevehites or not.
SPEAKER_03Right. They seem like they were pretty hard-hearted. Like they just didn't give a fudge about any of this, right? So uh it sounds like a tough crowd. I didn't seem like they'd be super receptive.
SPEAKER_00You just said give a fudge, and it made me think of Zach's initial almost initial illustration, like of him saying the F bomb in front of Sharon Center.
SPEAKER_04Which I know Sharon, I'd be like, I would never know me either. Never either. Never. But anyway, keep going.
SPEAKER_03So pretty, I feel like it was a pretty unrepentant group. It seemed like they would be a tough crowd to talk to.
SPEAKER_04I wrote down Nineveh wanted to kill Jonah, and Jonah wanted to kill them. Yeah, God called him to speak the truth to them as a prophet. Brutal assignment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it well, and the interesting thing there is that in the scriptures it says that like you get to know only a little bit. About the character of Jonah. He's the son of Amitai, and he's a prophet of God. And that's about it for his personality. Except there's one other portion of scripture that says Jonah, the son of Amitai, and then it says where he's from. And he's from a city called Gath Hefer. And Gath Hefer is in the north, which Zach brought up that the north is sacked by Assyria. And for our listeners who may or may not know, uh, Nineveh was one of two of the capitals of the Assyrian Empire. And so basically, the Lord is saying look, these people who enslave your relatives and murder your relatives and do some really horrible things to your relatives, you got to go to them and proclaim something to them, which in Jonah's mind, he knows that there is a possibility that can that grace can come of this to his enemies. Right. So here's my tough question for you guys right now, and I'll answer it as well. Who's
Naming Your Personal Nineveh
SPEAKER_00your Nineveh?
SPEAKER_04Dang, Seth.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to get another hosting position later on, and I'm like, I'm gonna do some probing Dr. Phil like questions with the Bible. This is where the awkward silence comes in. That's pensive thought. That's what it is. Do you want me to go to give you some? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Please, please.
SPEAKER_00All right. So I have always tried to fill a hole in my heart that began that I was little. That I was always told I wasn't really smart. My parents did, um, but like intellectually smart, not like I couldn't figure things out, like Street Smarts, book smarts. More often than not, not very book smart, even though my grades were fine. I didn't understand it. And then when I went to school to be a pastor, there was a couple of voices in my life that I listened to that said, it you don't have what it takes to be a pastor. Like you have to know a lot more than what I think you know. And so a lot of my life is devoted to study. And why is it devoted to study? Well, now it's at a different point. Now I just really appreciate the discipline of study. And I appreciate being able to help people with study because I never want anybody else to feel like they're not smart enough to do this. And so if I can walk alongside somebody and equip them in some way, that actually gives me a lot of joy now. But for a long time, I just needed to study so I could be smarter than the other people in the classroom. So nobody thought that I was dumb. And uh so to me, people who are ignorant are my Nineveh. And that could be anybody. Uh, but I struggle in my heart with that because I'm just I it's it's a thing that feeds into me. Like I struggled so hard to try to amass some knowledge and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And look at these people here. Maybe it's not their fault. And so my Nineveh ends up being like anybody who shows just like tremendous ignorance on something where really I could probably help them just by walking alongside of them and getting to know them. And maybe they know quite a bit. And maybe I'm actually the ignorant one. So I'll go with ignorance is my Nineveh.
SPEAKER_03Um, I think probably it's really easy to feel um disdainful or towards people who don't have the same gift set that you have. Right? So I just view people who are or I struggle to relate to people who uh don't have strong gifts in like administration or keeping their lives organized or showing up to meetings on time, or those things are important to me. And so when those things don't happen, I have a tendency to feel like oh that's it's hard to give grace in those circumstances.
SPEAKER_00Kate, you're just generally a great human being. I I want to know who your Nineveh is, just so I can be like, okay, she's normal. Not that you're not Julie, just so you know. I just realized how bad that could have come out.
SPEAKER_04So my Nineveh is like who I have a hard time proclaiming the truth to because there's a chance they're gonna come around. Is is that who is that the question?
SPEAKER_00You explore the question however you feel, like it's convicting to you and you're just getting it off your chest.
SPEAKER_04Man. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm stumped.
SPEAKER_00That's fine. That's all right. I think it's probably good if you're not like, I have no one that I hate right now.
SPEAKER_04Well, and that's not the case. It's not that I don't have anyone that I'm not hating. Maybe it's because I live by myself now. I'm not mad at anyone.
SPEAKER_00You just hate the dog.
SPEAKER_04I love the dog. I wish he could talk, actually. Yeah, I don't know. I'll I'll chime back in if I think of something. God will probably reveal it as soon as I get home, you know, tonight. He'll be like, This is your Nineveh. No, God speaks in a very gentle tone now that we're not. This is your Nineveh. He'll say, What about this, Kate? And I'll be like, Yes, you're right.
SPEAKER_00All right, so we're going back to the story of Jonah.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And we've got this big storm. So we're gonna take it like a couple of steps back into the story.
Self-Made Storms And Honest Reflection
SPEAKER_00Uh Zach goes out of his way to let us know that sometimes those stores storms are self-made. So uh how do you know whether the storm is self-made or the storm is like being brought into your life for a more like uh sanctifying purpose?
SPEAKER_04That's good. I feel like whenever you reflect, you look over like, okay, let's what's going, what's going on in my life? You know, am I contributing to this storm? That's always a good question to ask. Because most likely you are. I am, most likely. Not always, not always, but it's good, it's always good to present yourself to the Lord and say, examine me, show me my ways, Lord. Um, I want to honor you. Um, but whether it's our own doing or outside of ourselves, we know that God will use it, right? So that's what we can be sure about. Um, and there's sometimes I know in my own life, I don't know if I caused it or if I if it was outside myself. And I don't I think there's a lot of those situations we're not gonna know either until we get to heaven or we get to heaven and it doesn't matter anymore, right? Um I went through uh treatment for cancer in 2017, and for the longest time I was convinced it was because of something I did. And and it goes back to kind of what Seth was talking about in the beginning with silence, like voices in your head. Um I think those voices are really good to examine because for the longest time, um I thought I would hear my my mother's voice in my head. And it was kind of a critical voice, but then I started to think, you know what? That voice I hear that I think is my mom's, I don't I don't even think my mom is that critical. You know, and you don't really think about those things that you just always have thought and believe, kind of like you were talking about with believing you weren't smart enough. Um until you get silent and you think about it and you bring it to the Lord and you know, decide, you know, instead of this, I'm gonna believe what the Lord says is true about myself. You know, and and it brings you to a point where I don't need to really determine if I cause this, if I cause this storm, there is, there is, it's good to repent if you did contribute to the storm. But if you didn't or you can't figure it out, you give it to the Lord and you take a step of obedience and move forward.
SPEAKER_03That's good. I heard this great thing when you're going through a uh circumstance troubling is asking what's um mine to carry or own what's another person's to carry your own and what's God's to carry your own. So um if I look at a circumstance and say, Oh, is there something I need to own here? And that's like, okay, that kind of is revealing. And sometimes there definitely is. And then there's other times there's just circumstances where someone you love is making poor choices, and there's really not anything for you to carry or own with that, or it's just something really tough and that just happened to you. Your cancer that wasn't yours to carry or to own. Yeah, it wasn't somebody else's to own. God is gonna, God's responsible for that. I'm not saying responsible for your cancer. I think I'm speaking poorly right now, but I would say that you're gonna give that entirely over to God, right? That's a circumstance that only He can control. Right. And so sometimes asking those three questions can be helpful. That's really figure out yours, yeah, your thing.
SPEAKER_00I just think that some people, as they go through trials, uh they'll just think through not think through it, they kind of just process through it thoughtlessly and either just throw it all on God. I know that that's not what you were not saying God is responsible to orchestrate. Yes, thank you for clarifying that. But I think that's where a lot of people go is they'll say, well, if he is all powerful and he is all knowing, he knew this was gonna happen, and I'm his child, how could he do this to me?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And at the very minimum, how could he allow this to happen? And in some circumstances, we are the ones who allowed that thing to happen. We just don't want to own up to it. So I think when you're talking about the different levels of who should be responsible for these things, that's super helpful to have a framework for people to process through. So it's not just, oh, I'm the victim, now it's all God's fault, but to say, in some circumstances, this was my fault. God, this is not on you, but I'm still asking you to be with me through it.
Jonah And Jesus In The Storm
SPEAKER_00And I think that's where there's this beautiful parallel between Jonah and Jesus. And it's not just when Jesus says, I bring you the sign of Jonah. I'm talking about when Jesus went down into the ship and there's a storm and he's sleeping. Yeah, there's all these parallels between Jonah in this ship and Jesus in this ship. And a great storm arises, and the disciples are freaking out on the boat and they wake him up, and he's like, Well, I'm here. What did you expect was gonna happen? Right. That being said, like there's a very different um end to these stories. And this isn't my um insight. This is uh Tim Keller uh had this insight and how these kind of parallel. And he's like, Well, you could be like Jonah and try to solve it for yourself, which uh he ends up, you know, in this whole disturbed lake and in the chaos, or you can see that Jesus is in that boat with you in the storm, and he's gonna do one of two things. And the two things, I don't know if this comes from Keller or not. I I've heard these two things from actually a buddy of mine uh who did a chapel on it for our high school and then for our middle school. And he said, in the middle of a storm, when you're with Jesus, he's gonna do one of two things. He's either gonna call him the storm or he's gonna call him the child. And I'm like, oh man, that's so good. Because you can't always change the storm. Uh but if he's with you, there's a difference that you can get through that storm. And sometimes, uh, because he is all powerful and he is God and he has victory over sin, death, and the power of the devil, sometimes he can stop that storm. So for me, that was a really good way to look at, you know, how do you get through things like this and not be a Jonah and follow Jesus? So uh Tim Keller's insights on this. So if you're listening, listeners, uh, just like Google Tim Keller, Jonah and Jesus, and there's just a treasure trove of a lot of uh parallels here that always focus on the resurrection of Jesus.
The Power Of A Powerless Posture
SPEAKER_00And I believe that as we're kind of wrapping up our time here, one of the most powerful moves that Zach made in this message was to illustrate how powerless Jonah ends up being, and how at the end of the message, we all took a very powerless stance of just having our arms kind of open to our sides and even back a little bit. Like you can't protect yourself in that position, you can't even defend, like you can't do anything on the offensive to do anything to like hurt anybody in that position. You're just powerless. So uh if you could give a moment of just speaking to the powerlessness power that we have in Jesus as you're walking in the Christian walk.
SPEAKER_03While you're talking about that, I was thinking about, you know, as a mom, when you have a very young child who's in distress, sitting on your lap, fighting, fighting, fighting. And when that child finally just surrenders to your loving care and leans back against you and is at peace, I think that that's what God is asking from us. And so oftentimes we're just fighting against people knowing about our sin or trying to hide and whatever. And and God is saying, just lean, lean back. It's okay. I've got you. My grace is sufficient for you. And so and that's the place of blessing, of rest, of contentment. So this week, when you feel like you've got to justify yourself or make yourself look good or pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and gosh darn, I'm gonna be a better person this today. I I just I'm kind of gut money, no. Lean back against Jesus and say, Holy Spirit, would you please help me by your power to follow you more fully? I admit my sin to you. I need you, and let me just rest in your care.
SPEAKER_00That is powerful. I hope that's an image that everybody that's listening can like actually relate to. Just like falling back into a source of comfort, whether it's you know, different people have different relationships with their parents, but like just falling back into a parent that cares about you. Yes. And powerlessly relaying the power. And and the other thing that you brought up was uh, my grace is sufficient for you, my power is made perfect in your weakness. Yeah. All right, Kate, what do you got?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I was just looking at another quote um from the sermon. Zach said, our God is a master at finding people. His arm is not too short to save. And it is far more difficult to run away from God than to turn and go back to him. So that was reassuring to me. Um, I love that image that he's a master at finding people. Um, you know, whenever you compare our heavenly father to a really good earthly father, it it always falls short. You know, our God, you know, a good father, um, you know, like you don't always a dad doesn't know where his kids are all the time. They go to school, they don't know where, you know, but our father knows where we are at all times. A good father doesn't know what's in their child's heart and head all the time. Our God knows, always knows what's in our heart and in our head at any moment. And also a good fat a good earthly father doesn't know the future, but our heavenly father knows every moment, you know, in the past and to the end. So he is worthy of our trust.
SPEAKER_00Love that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if there's anything more that you guys can add into that because that was amazing wisdom. And I hope our leaders or reader or listeners are like, oh man, I gotta pull off to the side of the road and put this in my notes app on my
Final Takeaways And Next Week Hope
SPEAKER_00phone. But what are your final takeaways from this past Sunday?
SPEAKER_03I think I'd heard once like just one of the ways that you can kind of measure your maturity in the Christian walk is how long it takes for you to recognize sin in your own life and admit it. So does it take you a week? Does it take you a day? Does it take you a half hour? Does it take you five minutes? Does it take you two minutes? And so just this week, I'm gonna say, Lord, may it be that that gap between my recognizing my sin and my bringing it to you gets super small. All right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, and just having the courage to pray that prayer, like, reveal my sin to me, Lord. Um, I wrote down on one other quote Um, that's a truth about sin. Sin will take you further than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay. So just with that in mind, Lord, reveal our sin so you can refine us.
SPEAKER_00Well, what's great about both both of you are saying is that you're capitalizing on the kind of end of what Zach was talking about, the I can't. So I'm gonna put in a spoiler alert for those who are listening. Um, Jesus can. Yes. And that's the focus of week two, is that we're already saying I can't. Uh the repentance is had, but Jesus can. And so the gospel is gonna be full on this coming week. It's always there in the preaching, but like I've seen the manuscript and I'm excited to hear how this affects the congregation when freedom comes in and strongholds are broken down. So we'll keep doing that as we keep taking our faith beyond Sunday.
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