Beyond Sunday Special - After 12 Failed Call Attempts, This LCMS Church Chose to Merge

In this special bonus episode of Beyond Sunday, we're featuring an episode from our own Pastor Zach Zehnder's Red Letter Disciple podcast. In this episode, Zach sits down with Matt Rossow, Kristie Webb, and Tyler Rohlfsen to share the story of how Good Shepherd Church in Fremont, NE became King of Kings Fremont.

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Transcript

Guests And The Merge Story Setup

SPEAKER_03 0:10

What's up and welcome to Red Letter Disciple. I'm Zach Zender, your host, and really want to challenge you to be a great disciple of Jesus no matter where you are. Hey, we got a fun episode today, I'll tell you about in just a moment, but I want to first off thank our sponsor, Hodos, H-O-D-O-S. It's a new nonprofit in the LCMS. It is designed for 18 to 29-year-olds in the Lutheran Church. We are getting ready and putting plans together for a Lutheran young adult gathering in 2027. And so I cannot wait to share more with you. Hey, if you want to stay up to date, you can go to our website, hodosway.com. Hodos, by the way, means Greek. It doesn't mean Greek. Hodos is Greek, and it means way or path or road. And so go to hodosway.com, H-O-D-O-S-W-A-Y.com, and you can stay up to date on everything happening with this exciting new ministry that we genuinely believe is going to shape the future of the Lutheran Church as we uh really pour into the next generation of young adults. Today, episode, we have three guests coming on. We got Tyler Rolfson, Matt Rosso, and Christy Webb. Tyler is the campus director and in the SP program right now. And Christy Webb is the associate campus director, and Matt Rosso, the former president of what is now known as King of Kings in Fremont. This is kind of a fun episode where I get to wear a couple of my hats, uh, not just in Red Letter, but in King of Kings as serving as a teaching pastor and as the multi-site director. I just wanted to share the story of uh this merge that we completed with what was known as Good Shepherd in Fremont, Nebraska, who had a 70-year amazing history, but uh was on years, if not more than a decade and a half of decline and decided to do something bold to investigate and to have conversations around what a merge could look like with King of Kings in Omaha, Nebraska. So here we are, more than a year after it's become King of Kings, about six months after it publicly relaunched officially. And I just wanted to share this story to show you that new things are possible, that innovation of ministries, that great things can happen, that lives can be changed. And let's continue to think about new things, innovation when churches are in decline. And so we dive into merge and a lot of what happens in a merge and what's good and what's bad. And we also dive into uh the importance of having Tyler going through the SP program. And quite simply, um the merge that we did with Tyler as campus director would not be possible if the restrictions were in place at the time when Tyler got through, which was just six months ago. And so I hope today's conversation um blesses you. If you haven't already, rate, review, subscribe, follow, whatever it is, share, comment, like. And uh that means a lot to us. But without further ado, let's get to today's episode. Let's do this. All right. This is a fun red letter disciple episode because it's a little bit of uh my kind of world's colliding of not just red letter and podcast host, but I get to serve at King of Kings as a teaching pastor in Omaha, Nebraska. And we have this great vision of opening up 10 campuses by 2042. And I've been able to play a role in the multi-site director seat and got to be a pivotal part, praise God, of an awesome merge opportunity with a church in Fremont, Nebraska that you're going to hear about. And so as we kind of share this story, that's really what today is, it's storytelling. I do want you to be thinking about two things that are really important in the conversations we've been having on the podcast. Number one is uh my belief in the SP pastor program. Uh, it it is something that I genuinely believe we need more of and to not restrict and limit. And I'm sharing one story of our church that if those restrictions were in place, none of this would even be possible. So I want you to be thinking about that. But also, as we're in a synod that is struggling, many churches are in decline. Uh, we had a great opportunity to merge with the church. And I want to share that story because I think that more and more stories and conversations like this are gonna happen. And so it's a story with multiple people to tell this story. And so we've got uh for only one of the like two or three times in the history of the podcast, three guests today. So I'm gonna have them introduce themselves. Let's go. Uh, we'll go Matt and then Christy and then Tyler. Um, introduce yourselves um to the podcast listeners, all four of them.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Yeah, Zach, thank you. My name's Matt Rosso, and uh my my roles at uh Good Shepherd, which is who we were prior to King of Kings, uh uh a little bit of Jack of All Trades there. I was on the property team for a while. I did the Christian care team for a while, and at at the time of our merge, I was fortunate enough to have been elected president uh of the congregation, so was uh lucky enough to be able to help us through that and and guide through that conversation. And now as King of Kings, it's it's fun to be part of the production team and uh just still be part of that team and watching us grow.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

And and your cool background there for those that are watching, you can tell Matt's full Nebraska with all those John Deere tractors. That's great. Christy, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 5:35

I am Christy Webb. I am both worlds right now. I came from Good Shepherd. I did multiple roles there, Christian care team, family ministry team, leadership, worship team. Um, and then I also worked in the church office um while it was Good Shepherd, and now I am on staff at King of Kings and loving it.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Awesome. And then Tyler.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yeah, my name is Tyler Rolfson. I am the campus director at King of Kings Fremont. Uh get a work alongside Christy. Rarely does an hour go by where there's not some sort of text or phone call or email that Christy and I are tackling. Um so she and I work very, very closely here at the Fremont campus. Uh, and then I am also a vicar in our specific ministry pastor program. Uh started that in September of this last year. I guess August was orientation. And uh am blessed, overwhelmingly blessed that Zach is serving as my SP mentor. Um and uh hopefully he's getting a little bit out of it as well.

Good Shepherd In Its Heyday

SPEAKER_03 6:41

I'll give you the extra credit points there for that relationship. That's that's sweet. And we love we love having Tyler on the team and and going through the program, and it is a blessing. And I do get something out of it. That's the one of the cool things about S ⁇ P is uh the amount of mentors that believe in this program because it's actually really beneficial and helpful for us to look at things and and to be in that spot. And so, Tyler, your story is gonna kind of weave into this uh later as we jump into sharing a little bit of the merge story. So, this first probably half will be more Matt and Christy telling the story and then um and then how you entered in is kind of fun too. But Matt, I'd love for you to take us back. Uh, you were serving as president of Good Shepherd um before we kind of got to like the merge conversations, like think of the good years. What was Good Shepherd like when it was at its best? What did you love about it? How long have you been a part of it? Kind of share a little of the Good Shepherd journey.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Yeah, you bet. Uh been part of Good Shepherd now, King of Kings, for uh 49 years. And uh in its heyday, you know, Good Shepherd was a thriving church. Um our location in Fremont is at one point one of our slogans was we're the heart of Jesus in the heart of Fremont, because we're right at the corner of a very popular intersection in town. Um, you know, worshiping two, three hundred a weekend uh over a couple different services, uh a vibrant youth group, which I was blessed to be a part of, and uh um you know a group of people there that were just good friends, and not only above and beyond that, our parents were friends. So, you know, the the church softball team that we had, those of us who were in the youth group, we were all together hanging out there and we'd go you know, get food afterwards and go to someone's house for after the games and things. So, you know, those those were the heydays. And you know, my time in youth group uh where I really kind of felt a spirit movement was after my first uh national youth gathering to uh New Orleans. So that was a big pinnacle movement for me, and uh just had you know been lucky and fortunate and blessed by God to be part of of leadership of Good Shepherd and and now part of King of Kings since then.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yeah. And Christy, talk talk about your role with Good Shepherd and what the church kind of meant to you.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Um I wasn't there quite as long as Matt. We were there probably about.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Hardly anybody has been, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

I know he outdoes everybody. Um I was there for about 20 years. We started going to Good Shepherd when the kids were fairly little. So they grew up. I mean, they they grew up in the church. They went to Sunday school, midweek, vacation Bible school. Confirmed all the way through. Um I just I really got involved when I became a part of the family ministry and just helping out with Sunday school and got loved to teach the Sunday school. Um, we did an event each year back to Bethlehem. That was always fun and was known in the community. So that was always fun to put together. And I just I loved to organize that and just to see the hundreds of people that would come through for that event. Um, and then I would go on to work for Good Shepherd also. So it was also my job. Um, but I loved to do it. And I just I enjoyed every day when I went to work um that I got to see the people that loved Good Shepherd also. But I got to know them more on a personal level and just know more about them and know more than get to know them more deeply where I hadn't had that opportunity just being a member of it.

Noticing Decline And Denial

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah. So this great deep and rich history that, yeah, had some great years and some great moments. Um, when for you guys, I'll start with Matt, when did you kind of realize like, yeah, we had a great history and things were uh awesome at one point, but something's kind of gotta change here at Good Shepherd. What would you say was that for you?

SPEAKER_04 10:33

For me, it was just you know kind of the the the eye test, you know, you you could see that the congregation was aging. A person could see that the the size of youth group was dwindling. You know, you went from in the teens for a confirmation class to to single digits to my daughter when she got confirmed, she was the only one. So you could the eye test is probably what worked for me as far as you could see that there was uh something needed to change in order for for us to be vital as a as an ongoing congregation.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

And about what time or your your frame was that?

SPEAKER_04 11:11

Oh gosh, probably early 2000s, I would say, is kind of when you started noticing more more and more of that.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Yeah, from your perspective, Christy, what what did it feel like kind of when things on the inside, you're starting, you know, Matt's talking the eye test, but you can also look at numbers and just see there's some decline. So what was that feel like when you're working on the inside and and you're seeing um that decline?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

You know, it was it was difficult to start seeing that decline. Um, and we probably came into the church at the start of that decline, but just to see people that had been there and to see just the emotion. I mean, there was people leaving that weren't there anymore, that that group, that original church family wasn't there. So it was just it was difficult for people to navigate through that. Um it was frustrating sometimes just to see that that things need to be changed, but we didn't know what needed to be changed, maybe, or how to get that change to happen and how to navigate that change. Um and it was just sad because you could feel maybe a sense of defeat as the years went on that we just couldn't grow it. Like we were trying, but we just could not get those numbers back up.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

Matt, from your perspective, why is that? Like you see, things need to change, we're not sure what, but what what what do you kind of look back on, or do you look back on those uh those you know, 15, 20 years or so of like this these were the reasons for decline, or is it is there anything specific kind of to point to, or is it just kind of still, I don't know, we don't really know why.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

I really don't know why. It probably is the best answer. I mean, there can be contributing factors, of course, would when it's uh in death and dying, you know, the members who are dying uh and not replacing them with younger either members or or people with kids, especially that could help grow that grow that uh that faction of the church. And the the future of any church is gonna be its youth and and kids. And uh when you didn't see those, uh it it was kind of it got kind of easy to to see that there was a decline that was in place and happening, and and like Christy said, trying to figure out how to how to fix that is is the hard part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

And do you feel like were there were the people kind of aware of this or was there some denial uh for a while?

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Oh, definitely denial. I think uh you you know LCMS, a good German background uh faith here, you know. So it we are there's we can't change. There's you we have to keep going doing the same thing, and and uh it'll change on its own. But uh um those who you could see it and understand it, I think that there was some understanding there. And I think our leadership team that we had in place then um was seeing that, and and that's what you know, as we're gonna talk about, that's what led to where we're at. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

So how yeah, how did the idea of a merge then get on the table for you guys? Because that's not typically where a church would would go to. And and uh again, part of the reason for sharing this story is I I think it needs to be more of a part of the picture. So how how did the idea of a merge come up for for you, Matt, when you were president?

Why A Merge Enters The Picture

SPEAKER_04 14:25

It it that's a crazy story. Um part of it is just being bold. And when I became president, you know, the pastor that we had at that time, uh Ryan Ankerson, when when I met with him after I got elected, and and he happened to just share the story, said, Hey, you know, it when I first got here four years ago, I think it was at this time, Greg Griffith from King of Kings at Omaha reached out and had uh just a small conversation about what a what a merge would look like. And at that time, with uh Pastor Ankerson's tenure being new, like that's not the right time to do it, because he's got to have his time to to try to grow. Well, then when Ryan took a a different call and uh and we were in a vacancy situation and things like that, and then you know that's the time that I was elected president, and and uh Ryan had given me Greg's number and and uh your contact info, Zach, and like, you know what? What's the harm in making a call? The worst they could say is no, this isn't the right time for us, and then we all move on. But praise God, that wasn't the answer we got. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yeah. And go back to even before like when you got Ryan, I think part of the reason in those early conversations that the Emerge was even more on the table is right, the church would continue to kind of have have decline, and Ryan did some really great things in the community. Uh, and then um he wasn't there super long, and and uh from my understanding, had to go somewhere else for the sake of his family, which was was uh you understand that it's great. You have you need to do that. Um but it it took uh you you tell me, I I think I've heard you say 11 or 12 call attempts previously to get Ryan. Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Yeah, correct. Yeah, before Ryan and Christy was on that call team too. Um, so yeah, that's part of the story too, Zach. You're exactly right, is you know we we tried, and just finding those pastors out there in the LCMS was very, very difficult. And uh the congregation, the voters had had told us that they wanted somebody with experience. We didn't we didn't go at that time, we didn't want to go with somebody right out of seminary. Um so finding someone with experience that was willing to to come to a church that you know if if you look at the papers and you look at the numbers of things, they're they're coming to a church that that is in decline. So it's hard to convince someone to to try to do that. Um you know, we were we were thankful for the time Ryan gave us for sure. And that's yeah, that's God talking right there, too.

Fears About Control And Identity

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Yeah, and for for those listening in, so why are we having so many conversations around pastoral formation on this podcast? Why, why, why are people so passionate about this? Um, so so the things that Good Shepherd went through in uh 2018, 19, whatever that was, uh they were already struggling on their 11th or 12th call to find somebody. And and we are every year having so many more pastors retire out, the pool is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And so some of us are looking at that and saying, hey, we should do something about that proactively. And that's why these conversations exist, because every single time um we don't form a pastor, um, there's a church out there that's gonna be missing out. And so if anyone's wondering, you know, are we really in a place where it's that as bad as y'all are saying it is? And I'm saying, yeah, we're already there, and it's about to fall off a cliff unless we do something a lot differently. And so uh I know that that was a huge part of even, you know, the future for you guys is um after Ryan took another call and went to serve elsewhere. Do we even uh want to go through that process again? It didn't work out, it was very painful how it worked out last time, those years of waiting. Um, but but so the merger was an idea. So um there were other ideas as well, but what were um either one of you, Christy or Matt, can answer. What what do you think were kind of the biggest fears when people heard the word merge?

SPEAKER_04 18:40

I I think for me, one of them and and Christy can expand too. I think uh uh a lot of people when they hear the word merge, they they think lack of control. You know, 70-year history of of being Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Fremont and uh and you know directing your ministry there. Um I think that was a hard thing for some people is like, well, if we if we merge, then we don't have control. We can't have these uh voters' meetings or or things that we have now because we wouldn't be essentially the the leadership of that. So I think that was one thing that was hard for people.

unknown 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah. And just the identity of Good Shepherd, I think just the years that they had been there, um the longevity longevity of it. We had just celebrated our 70th anniversary. Um, so it was just, I think it was even just the identity of our own church of Good Shepherd.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

Yeah. So Matt, what as we started talking, like what gave you confidence to kind of explore the option of emerge and then to continue the conversations.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

Well, uh probably first and foremost is is just my deep love for this this church, this community. You know, I said that I've been a part of of Good Shepherd for 49 years. Well, my 50th birthday is is next week. So I've I've been I've been here uh a long time, and I think that it I felt a pull in my heart, and and you know, I can only believe that it was the Holy Spirit speaking through that. Is we need to find a way to keep this location, this part is a a vibrant uh congregation that is part of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

The Decision Process And The Vote

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yeah. And I I remember that first meeting that I had with you, Matt, and I I drove out to Fremont. And Fremont's a suburb of Omaha, it's maybe um 30 minutes from our broadcast campus. And you know, you go out there not knowing what to expect. And I was kind of blown away when I came onto property. And this is a piece of again, why I think we we've got to get we've got to figure this stuff out because you it's such a prominent location off of a thoroughfare that is is I mean, just so evident. And it's a beautiful building, and there's a brand new community building gymnasium built onto it like 15 years ago. And I I walked on into it like, wow, there is so much potential here and excitement. And and so, how do we figure out how this can become a vibrant, vibrant church again? Um, and so I yeah, as we started talking, and then there you you know, Matt serving as president and Christy was involved in some of those conversations as well. Like, what would you say? Uh we named a little bit of the fear of you know losing control or identity. What what were some of the other members' initial reactions to being a part of becoming a part of another church?

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Um I think becoming an their initial reaction as a as the members, I think there was just a broad array of mixed emotions just because there were there's so many people that were involved in it. Um you had any anywhere from sad because you are you're looking at the reality of where we're at and what that may look like. um anger that and part of that is denial is that we weren't we weren't in a bad enough state yet to have to make that choice that we should just keep going forward and hire a pa you know call a pastor on. But I think that there's also there was a part maybe of a little bit of a relief that there may be an answer to continue to do ministry in the in the location that we were at. It just may look a little different.

unknown 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Anything to add to that Matt?

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Well as strange as it sounds you know seeing the wide range of reactions was was probably one of my one of my uh most memorable things of the of this whole process uh like Christy said everything from you know sadness about oh well we lose our identity we lose our control to you know others and and people who have been part of the church for for all 70 years who are like this this sounds like a neat idea let's let's look into this let's keep going let's ask some questions let's hear some some news let's see what this could maybe be it was incredible to see that and of course anything that's that you know of this importance for people you're gonna have that wide array of emotions what ultimately led Matt you and and the church to say this is the direction we should go well a binder full of meetings right here um we one of the things that I felt was important and that our leadership council felt important was that uh we communicate you know this is something that's gonna affect many lives and and affect the the spiritual lives of people so we tried our hardest to communicate as often as we could whether it was through mailings or meetings um just what our options were because you the like you said Zach this merge wasn't our only option there were other options you know merging with another church and uh the Lutheran school in in Fremont you know there's an option with that you know we could have we could have sold the building we could have sold the property to somebody else and and uh gone a different direction that way so there were there were many options on the table and we were very clear when we had our meetings that you know it our I think it was four options we had you know merge with A and B and then we had uh call a pastor and the fourth option was close and those those were all very real options that were all on the table even though nobody wanted number four it definitely was one of our options so I think that was certainly a major part of that was just communication.

Early Transition And Story Night

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Yeah and you you handled that masterfully I thought by allowing each of those options uh to come before the people and ultimately to get input and say and uh I remember the the day I'm sure you do as well Matt of kind of making the official decision which of course happens at board meetings and um you know that that there in in both of our bylaws right there there needed to just be a majority um from both sides to go through but then when we looked at Nebraska nonprofits merging we saw that oh um their bylaws supersede ours and it needs to be a two-thirds majority um and and Matt do you remember the vote on what the vote was it it was it was exactly two thirds yeah 50 to 25 if I remember right yeah I think that's right yep I could probably find it in here but yeah I think 50 to 25 was the exact number there. Yeah it's so so crazy and so wild that it was on the number and in the on the King of Kings side it was uh you know a lot higher than that but clearly it's gonna be higher in the these merge situations you would think on the receiving side than the the side that's that's leaving. And so I think it's really easy to point out for you know situations like this that there's going to be a wide array of emotions. There's going to be people that vote yes people that vote no it's not simple by any stretch of the imagination. But once that um kind of went through we started cool let's put some plans together I think that vote was in like September or October before it was kind of official official and and there was a vacancy pastor serving there and we kind of said hey why don't you you finish the rest of the year kind of as is and then as we come into the calendar year which for us was 2025 um King of Kings will will start to um do some more things and and work our way towards a fully launched campus which the goal for us was as soon as we could um but would end up being in September of 2025. But but we started doing some things and we started holding leadership classes and um Bible studies and and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

And so what from your perspective Matt and Christy what were the first parts of that transition like scary you know as as you can imagine what's this really going to look like and all that but then once once we started seeing the the love and care that the that the people at King of Kings had for us before we were even a fully launched campus it it just for me it was like you know this this is how it should be this is people loving on each other caring for each other um working towards a common goal of getting more people to heaven and to see that from from a staff and from a a group of people who didn't know us you know at all to have people come on campus and and I think a lot had the same reaction you did Zach is uh there's a lot of potential here I mean the location the the building and so on and and uh to see that build was was uh was neat to see.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yeah and the more I was there not just the location and the building but the people um just a real servant hearts. Christy what surprised you most kind of in those early days of merge?

SPEAKER_00 28:09

I just think it surprised me how first of all how smooth it kind of went I just think a lot of things fell into place and it just felt natural. But I think part of that was too the caring just the the overwhelming sense of just caring from King of Kings and understanding kind of that grief process that people were going through um and walking alongside of us through that and and what could they do to help us.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Yeah I remember one of the more meaningful at least from my end and I I heard this as well from the folks at Good Shepherd and I I learned this play from um Scott Geiger who's a pastor out in Carmel, Indiana at Cornerstone was to do um kind of just a story night and and uh we did that in December of 2024 before it kind of became King of Kings officially and uh just got to a chance to come and bring 15 or 20 of our staff on board and just have the members of Good Shepherd share the 70 year history. And we just started at the front of tell tell us tell us about this place and who was here and what are the stories we need to know. And it was a really powerful night and it really showed to me um that in a merge right you have kind of a I view it as a dance it's kind of talked about as a dance in some books and things that you read where there's a a leading partner and a joining partner and we were certainly the leading partner but if you want to be a good dance partner as the lead partner you need to bring the other one along along the way and and not just uh not just do everything the way you want but um honor them and and be a part of their story understand what's important to them how they like to dance and again not everything can change that's a little bit of why we were in that situation is because you know we we we recognize um that there's certainly a a path at King of Kings that would be healthy for a good shepherd but um it was really fun and and though it may have appeared that things were in control they weren't we were freaking out on the King of Kings side uh we'd never done this um it was brand new for us we weren't planning on it we yeah we want to open up campuses but we'd never done a merge and this one kind of came about more uh quick more quicker than we were ready for it and and I'm super grateful we did it and we said yes but we were not ready for it and this is where we insert not only Tyler but especially God um into this because I know the plans were um great let's work towards a fully launched campus um but to do that we want to have a team in place and we want to have somebody that at least eventually can serve as your pastor. And uh and so the team started taking place with Christy um in March and then we started having conversations with Tyler um right around there as well. So Tyler what do you remember kind of about um that time frame um and and what what were you up to at this point?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

And welcome back to the podcast Tyler Walton everybody I've just been working on other stuff for the last 25 minutes so you guys have been doing great. Yeah so at that point uh I guess a little a little a little more background on my story. So right out of college um I my my first ministry role full-time ministry role was working for Zach's dad Mark Sunder um where he was at that point lead pastor at King Kings and so I served under Mark's leadership for eight years and then during that time uh that's when uh Pastor Greg Griffith was called as lead pastor and so then I served under Greg for two or three more years. Interestingly and I told Greg this very early on I said Greg do you remember like six years ago this would have been 2018 2019 it was just an offhanded comment that you had made that you're like Tyler there are churches closing all the time across our synod like what what are we going to do about that? And I'm like, I don't know man. And uh and then I'm sure you know that was one piece of many that led to the kind of current 10 campuses in 20 year 20 20 years vision. So um the the Lord kind of stepped in strangely and miraculously and unexpectedly in our lives in 2021 and called us out to serve at a church in Connecticut. At that point I have fully been in the center of the country um Omaha went to school in Texas and then back to Omaha and so starting in summer of 2020 summer of 2021 I was leading worship and overseeing communications at um this just amazing church St. Paul Westport um and uh and things things were things were going quite well um and then at the beginning of 2025 right about that January timeframe uh things things out there was it was obvious that the season for us was going to come to an end. But we knew it was going to be a a few months but we we saw an end and then right about that same time Greg reached out to me saying hey this Fremont thing's in motion um and every time we're praying about it, your name's coming to the top could we chat? And I'm like, well your timing's impeccable because this is what's happening on the Connecticut side. And so you know a number of conversations and considerations and part of that was um what's possible within our synod and what's going on with this SP. There are miracles all over the place but one of the biggest miracles Zach will attest to is the like nine day gap from starting the SP application to getting it in by the the hard deadline. And then kind of in that time you know we we we said yeah we're we're in we gotta fly out here to meet the the Fremont campus and that same time we heard of the official acceptance into SMP Christy was uh kind of doing four jobs at once while I was just wrapping up life in Connecticut. And then we formally moved here in June and then started in the campus role in July.

unknown 34:27

That's cool.

Why SMP Matters For Mission

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Tyler for you uh yeah what's what what's the SP journey been like so far for so far for you? So you started uh last August orientation had a couple classes had an intensive class in there as well so what's that been like so far?

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Yeah it's it's been tremendous um it's a really really well built program it's incredi it's an it's academically robust um while also built in such a way that you you're expected to have um like be operating some in some sort of ministry role and then knowing that that that your your part-time education is indeed that part-time and so then you know so for some of my classmates they have a full-time job while they're bivocationally uh Vickering to be pastoring and then also doing 10 to 20 hours of school work on the side and I'm like oh my goodness I'm so blessed because my full-time job is is ministry. Yeah and so the the the the relationships with the guys has been tremendous um top flight professors um currently going through a class under under uh Dr. Joel Beerman in systematics um and I and I think one thing that I've I've really enjoyed from a learning formation development standpoint is is there's there's always this beautiful give and take between talking about it in theory and over Zoom on Mondays and then somehow during the week that concept comes into practice and that you know Zach and Zach you and I are meeting pretty much weekly and there seems to be something where I'm like oh I just I never encountered this before let's talk about it. And in a lot of ways that's kind of the best way we learn is that we we take it in in reading and conversation, but then you actually put it into practice and then you reflect on it and then you refine it. And so I've I've actually probably been surprised of of like this is this is actually this is a real journey of development and growth that I I don't know if I had fully expected. But it I wouldn't be I wouldn't rather be any other place.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

And and along those lines you know we have a lot of conversation in our synod um and Matt and Christy have heard undertones and overtones of this as well on pastoral formation of kind of residential versus everything else and S ⁇ P is included in that why why was S ⁇ P the right choice for you and why wouldn't residential work for someone like you Tyler you know one of the one of the biggest things was right about that same time that our season in Connecticut was coming to an end my my wife's father was diagnosed with cancer um and and then that kind of kind of that sense of kind of homesickness was strong. But then also just the the ministry opportunity that um would just it kind of from all angles were like this really feels like God is setting this up. And there there's always going to be a a tension right between formation and mission. But I was even just early on the call I was reflecting on like man Jesus did send his disciples out in the middle of the gospels. He didn't wait until they got through everything. He sent them out in the power of the Spirit and gave them authority and go. And I and I think for um to to be able to be fully formed as a pastor while also the opportunity to be active in ministry and growing through that it's certainly beneficial for me but hopefully I'm not putting words in Matt and Christy's mouth but I'm praying it's beneficial for them and for this entire King of Kings Fremont campus. And it's kind of like we're yeah, we're all on this journey together and really believing that it's worthwhile.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah one more on that and then we'll get back to kind of catching up people on where the story's at now and where King of Kings and Fremont is at. But I I part of my you know reason for wanting this conversation is to continue be an advocate for getting as many people into SP and just into pastoral formation as possible. And I've been very vocal and frustrated with the newest restrictions that allow that talk about that you you need to be you know more than 40 years old to enter the program and also have limitations on churches that have a thousand members or a thousand attendees on a weekend. Because both of those like if as I'm looking if those are in our policy restrictions, like we're if if we're in the same boat this year as opposed to last year, like thank God it worked last year. Because Tyler, how old are you?

SPEAKER_02 39:21

I'm 33 now. I was 32 at the time we submitted the application. Yeah.

What’s Different Now In Fremont

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Yeah so seven or eight years away and residential wasn't a good option for you and the mission work is right here and right now and there's a plan set up and and I just how many stories like the one you're hearing today just simply wouldn't happen because our synod can't figure out um a pathway um to to help all different types of churches with all different types of missions. And so um yeah so I really appreciate obviously the timing of how God worked this and all those that were involved especially President Snow in our district to really move things along um to to see some uh really great things because we have seen some really great things and so that's where let's get back to kind of the story now that Tyler's entered into it. We're uh yeah a little over a year I suppose into being officially King of Kings but about six months into kind of a fully launched campus is what we would say. And so um yeah let me start with Christy and just catch us up on where things are at today kind of comparatively to maybe where they were uh prior to King of Kings and and what what you're seeing and uh what what God's up to there is just there's new life I feel like in the church there's just a breath of fresh air in the people um we've seen so many more new younger people coming in that had never would have probably never have come in that door or have heard the news of God.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

So it's just been encouraging to see that growth to see the excitement in people to see that new life back in in the church again and in the people and just the excitement that they're wanting to get out there and share the word and get more people in. Yeah.

Faith Growth And God Stories

SPEAKER_04 41:11

How about from your end Matt Yeah the same just a new life um you just the the vibrance of it and you know we we talked about earlier uh with good shepherd 70 years of of history there well along with 70 years comes a 70 year old building so there were things that were starting to uh need repair and and as we you referred to it Zach as the new addition that was 15 years old. So you know those those kinds of things were realities that we were in and uh uh you know on the property team that I was in also we we always said we needed to refer to number one and number one was do we have the funds and and a lot of times that that wasn't the case so having uh a new energy you know uh a larger church with with maybe more resources we're able to to do some of the things to our property that we wouldn't have been able to do you know as good shepherd and as things age they need replaced and and uh you know safety standards and and that kind of thing so that part from us too from just a campus perspective uh was nice to be able to to join in with with uh some resources that are able to to keep our our building up to standards too I I'd love to hear kind of from all of you here on this question but what what's this journey as much as you've been a part of it um what's it done for your your own faith any one of you can start whoever wants to I'll start sure um for my faith um you know I'll I'll share this and I wasn't one that participated in in Bible studies much uh prior and uh after the the merge here with King of Kings and and I don't know if it's because there there's a a weight lifted off or you know you talked about the the breath of fresh air it's just a different attitude you know I I love our our Wednesday connect group and uh we have a lot of fun in it and and uh but the top the topmost part of that is we're also able to dig further into the word as part of it. So you know from from someone who maybe didn't participate in in Bible studies much before to to someone that is saying Wednesdays are appointment you know things those are things you don't miss. That's that's been big for me in my faith and and just the the growing of the of the church itself too and being able to help with production and all that something else that I enjoy. It's been fun getting to work with George and JC you know on campus there and and uh seeing that side too. So that's been a big one for me.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Yeah. Mine has just been my my faith, but my trust in God and just seeing how his plans have worked and have put put me in spots that have been able to help along in that journey that I was at Good Shepherd, but I at one point had made that decision to leave, but that was the right time. So then I can move to leadership to help guide us through then down this path. Um and in that time, then I met I met other people that now who would have never been in church before have now come to Good Shepherd or to King of Kings, sorry, King of Kings, and they're inviting people. So it's just it's been eye-opening to see how God is weaving in the plan of life and just how he's working everything for good.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Um yeah, I'm gonna I don't know if this is okay, Zach, but I'm gonna throw a question back at you as the host. Um in uh the that is set up here is that um like when we when we take faith-filled risks and like we don't feel the pressure to have it all figured out and controlled, like certainly Matt and Christy and the Good Shepherd family, they took a faith-filled risk, but King Kings did as well. Um it like the Lord really does show up. And what I I stepped in in over the summer of last year, where I got to see all the amazing things that are happening on like a weekly basis at King Kings Fremont, from the kids to the students to the new people that were showing up to the leaders that were making themselves like known and like, oh wow, Lord, the God's doing something, people that are inviting and proud of their church, where it's like, wow, praise God. And so I see that in Fremont, and then I get to be in the staff meetings and hear how what's happening at King of Kings Fremont is such an encouragement to the whole rest of the King of Kings system. And so, Zach, from your side, where did you see God at work in the King of Kings story?

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Thank you, Victor, for asking that. Um, it I I think it's beautiful, and I think you you started to hint at it that for me, uh what I've seen in my life, and this is just another example of uh when you don't need to have every step figured out. Um, you just need to take the right next step. And and when you do, like I just think of when when we risk ourselves for our faith, um, we get to see things, we get to experience parts of God that we otherwise would have missed. And and that that to me is the most beautiful piece is that had we all said no to this, we will have never known, right? Maybe God moved it in a different way or we'd have been involved in other things, and and maybe God shows up in those things. But but the fact is that when we say yes to taking a step, we don't have to have it all figured out. But when you do, when you kind of risk and do those faith-filled moments in your life, whether it's individually or with a group of people, which this one was, we get to experience um other things. I think that was even one of the very first devotions that I gave um on one of the nights with with the folks at that time that were still Good Shepherd, of really inviting them to be in on this early. And I was talking about the devotion of um Jonathan and the armor bear. I think it's 1 Samuel 14 and 15. And it's just a really powerful story of um Israel had no weapons. They had two swords, one was Jonathan's and one was his dad Saul's. Um, Israel, uh the Philistines had all the weapons, and and yet Jonathan had this confidence to go up against the Philistines with his armor bearer. And the joke I make there is like the number one job responsibility of an armor bearer is to bear arms, and he didn't even have any. Like, but his armor bearer was with him, and like what yeah, and and I just love the confidence. And so they go up and they through God, of course, defeat the first round of Philistines. And then Saul and the other 600 people that were hiding out hear commotion, and then they get to join in, and then the next battle takes place where more Philistines are getting destroyed. And then I think it's another 3,000 or 10,000. One of those two numbers are even further away, and they hear the commotion, then they join in. And by that time, all they really see is the Philistines running away. And so I talk about how fun it is that all of them got to be around the campfire that night and celebrate the victory. Uh, but there was two people specifically, Jonathan and the armor bearer, that got to see God do things that the rest of the group didn't get to see. And so that that's kind of been the the invitation is be a part of this from the beginning to see what God does. And I will say, uh, yeah, Matt and myself and Christy and the group at the beginning, uh, we we have stories of God showing up that the rest of the people they'll they'll they can celebrate with us, but they didn't quite see it like we did. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Yeah. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

So uh yeah, so we're on decline, we're good doing the merge, God's showing up. Where where are things like kind of from a numbers, not that everything's about numbers, but I'd love to kind of give a perspective on where we are a little over a year into the into the merge and six months into public relaunch.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Yeah, Matt, Matt or Christy would have to kind of give a sense of what Good Shepherd was like in the 2024 time frame. Where we're currently now, uh running our two services on a Sunday, kids administrative at both hours, students on Wednesdays. You kind of add those up over the so the course of a given week. We're gonna be somewhere in like the 140 to 170 range for on an average week. Um, Christmas was a huge highlight with well over 300 people here. Um, and it's like num num numbers are good to see trends and all that sort of thing, but like I'm like, every every single one of those numbers has a name and has a story and need God and praise God that we can be we are in a position to supply what everyone most basically needs, and that is life with Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 50:33

And to compare that to prior to merge, uh you know, we were we were worshiping 45 to 60 on a weekend uh with with no youth group and very few Sunday school aged children that that were involved, and even those weren't consistent. Um so it's it's palpable that change.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Yeah, yeah, the numbers have definitely definitely moved up and forward, and especially in the kids, because I think Sunday school we were we were lucky if we had maybe maybe two, three in Sunday school on a Sunday. Um so to see kids' ministry right now, too, just taking off the student ministry connect groups, um, just to get people into those connect groups are taking off. So it's just it's it's encouraging just to see all the numbers go up.

Advice For Healthy Church Mergers

SPEAKER_03 51:25

Yeah, and I I remember looking at one Sunday in November, kind of an anomaly anomaly Sunday, but there was like 53 kids on Sunday. I think 10 of them might have been the Rolfson extended kids. But there's 43 other kids, like what in the world? And I that's what I love though, is just seeing little Sundays like that, that uh you know, when when you take a risk and when you put your faith on the line and God shows up, um, like you said, uh the numbers are important because every number represents a story. So kind of um uh given a little bit of counsel or advice, maybe I'll I'll start with you, Matt. If a church is out there and um hearing the word church merger or maybe thinking about um changing but afraid, what how would you kind of counsel them?

SPEAKER_04 52:15

Uh be bold in your faith. First and foremost, pray about it and and listen to you know, take the time to be quiet and listen to to what you're what you're feeling from that. Um don't be afraid to have the hard conversations. And you know a lot of times your your biggest rewards come from times of of trial. And if that's if that's your situation in in the church you're at now, um those conversations can be not only rewarding for for yourself, but also for your community and your church community too.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Yeah. What I'd love to hear kind of from all of you, one or two things, let's go two things each. Um, so a bonus for those of you who goes who goes first, because you get to pick anything. Um but what what are a couple of things that you would say when you look back? Uh and not everything's been perfect, right? There's been challenges along the way for sure, but what what made this merge healthy instead of harmful? So if if a church is thinking about merging, or maybe that is an opportunity, and and listen, not every church should do that. I'm not that's where I love Matt, your words of prayer about it, and obviously conversation, and usually these things result in votes, and there's a lot of uh steps along the way. But if if a church is considering a merge, like when you look back, what are a couple of steps each um that make a merge healthy instead of harmful?

SPEAKER_04 53:44

I I'm gonna go back to number one communication, uh, and number two, um that boldness. You know, have and have your have yourself a a support system too. You know, talked about me being president at the time. Obviously, it wasn't just me. I mean the leadership team that we had in place at that time was phenomenal, and you know we would we wouldn't have got the work done that we needed to without them.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Yeah, and I think it's going into it with just an open heart, open mind. Um change is hard. But sometimes that change is what we need to to catapult us forward a little bit and grow us. And sometimes we do we we can see the biggest transformation in that change then.

unknown 54:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

And then I would just say just being there, just the understanding, understanding where everybody's at. Um not everybody's gonna be on the same page, but to walk and talk with them and understand where they're at and walk through that with them.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:50

How about from your end, Tyler?

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yeah, I'd save myself for last so I could be number five and number six here. Um yeah, going off what Matt said about communication, um, clarity is just huge. Um, Matt, I don't know if you remember this. It was either when I visited in May or when I started in July, it was right before a service, and you were in the production booth, and you and I just had a quick moment, and I said, Hey, from your standpoint, you kind of heard all of like the promises of what would be from Zach and Greg and the others back last year. Like, has that like materialized you? And and the heart of heart of behind me is like, I just like it, are people thinking this was like a bait and switch? And and your answer, do you remember what you said, Matt?

SPEAKER_04 55:41

I said a lot of things to you.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

His answer was no, Zach and Gregor frocked.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

No, you're your answer was like spirit inspired. You took a pause and you smiled and you said, Tyler, it's been more. It was yes and more. And and one thing I love about Pastor Greg is he isn't he is never afraid of being candid, but for the sake of clarity. Um and and so that was just highly encouraging to me that the yes, it's gonna be a bell curve of the people over here that are saying we should have done this 19 years ago, and then the people over here that's like I could never get on board with this, and then everywhere in the middle. But for that, for that kind of you know, middle eighty or so to be able to say, like, yeah, this is like this is what King King said would happen, to the best of their knowledge, and it's been what we expected, and then we saw God show up in all of these crazy ways, which is the and more. And so that clarity piece. Um and then the second thing is from the from the um sending church or the multiplying church, I think it's really important that to just mention like this was not imperialistic in the sense of King of Kings looking out, like, okay, what churches can we take over sometime soon? Um and and I and so for it to be really a courtship and a relationship and investigating and prayer and discerning, um, I think that makes things healthy. Um and I for for we're again, we're not saying that every church needs to go multi-site or multi-campus ministry is the future, but it is it is a model and it is a way that God is is working um to draw more people into his kingdom. And so for a for a for a church like King of Kings or another multi-site to say, well, Lord, we're open to what doors you're going to open, and we'll see what happens. And then for churches that maybe find themselves where Good Shepherd was in 2019, 20, 21, 22, to say, okay, well, maybe this is an option for us too. And what I love about it is like there really was, it was the better part of a full year of to kind of investigate and discern and go on dates together. Uh um, but here we are on the other side, and uh, we wouldn't have it any other way.

Five-Year Vision And Final Invites

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Yeah. And and I'll just say this like you said, it's not for everybody, but if there is a church out there that is um considering merging either as the leading or joining partner, um, feel free to reach out uh to my email, zak at redletterchallenge.com. Um, I will forward it to the right person. But we we we have we learned uh successfully how to do a merge with I think 16 different steps in there. Um we learned that from again our other friends in the LCMS, Tom Fotenhauer and Scott Geiger, and and um used a lot of what they had and made it our own just a little bit, but it was really helpful. So if you're like, I don't even know where to start, um, we can help you with that. Um, and that's that's easy to do. So just shoot an email and we'll we'll get you some information on that side of things if that's of interest. But let me have one final question for you guys. Obviously, we've talked about what what was, what changed, how it is today. I want you to kind of get five year eyes out on this thing in Fremont, Nebraska at King of Kings. And what what do you expect? What do you hope for um that King of Kings would look like five years from now, seeing all that you've seen so far? And I'll go reverse order this time, go Tyler, Christy, Matt.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

Um, yeah, what I see five well gosh, we're not even a year into this, and so we're we're thinking five years, I love it. Um is that um the that King Kings Fremont is recognized within the community as a radically uncommon, Jesus following, generous, community blessing church. Um and that when when people hear that, oh, oh, I that that that's my church, um, the the Immedia Association is wow, they're they're doing amazing things. And even if they know, even if they know nothing about the Bible or Jesus or the kingdom of God, they just think something's happened in there that I want to get in on. Um and then I and then I see people that have had their lives radically transformed by Jesus and um can't help but bringing that message to their community um that we continue to sustain what God has done and is doing. Um yeah, more kids, more students, and then greater depths of relationship and faith.

unknown 1:00:52

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

How about you, Christy?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

Tyler covered a lot of it. Um and it's it's just it's keeping those numbers going, keeping that life going, because I think that'll just be contagious to the community, even as we're out in the community, is if they can see Christ in us and that life and that excitement, I think that's just gonna keep those numbers going forward. Um, and just to be out in the community, to love on people, to know that we love people how they are and they can come exactly how they are.

unknown 1:01:24

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

And Matt. Yep. Same as Tyler and Christy also, you know, not only numbers, but uh uh community involvement, and we've done a good job of that so far, and I know that's can gonna continue to grow. Um and Tyler's a big piece of that. He's a he's a social guy, and and we're so thankful that God brought him here because I think he's gonna be known in the community, and that association to King of Kings will will be extremely important. So that's number one, and and number two, you know, if we're thinking five years, you know, how can we help campus number four if it hasn't happened already? How can what we've learned through our process not only help King of Kings, open campus number four, but maybe anybody else, you mentioned earlier, Zach, anybody else who's who's listening, how can how can we help others have the same success that we've experienced?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

Lord, let it be, all those things. And part of the reason why I wanted to end with that question is because uh there's too many churches out there that have had year, like Good Shepherd had had um faithful people, but had had years of decline and they weren't really sure why. And and I wanted to share a story of hope. And now we're thinking not five years of decline, but we're thinking of, yeah, we can change the community, lives can be changed, of course, more numbers, more kids, more students, more recognition, how can we help others? And and I I wanted to end with that question because I I just want to remind people that growth is possible, quality and quantity. And and but it oftentimes requires new thinking, it requires bold moves, it requires taking risks for our faith. Um, but it's pretty awesome when we see God at work. And so I I've loved getting to be a part of this story with you guys and in all of your lives and excited to see what God keeps doing at King of Kings. And so if anybody is curious to check out King of Kings, you can go to kingofkings.org. Um, thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you, Matt, Christy, and Tyler for being guests on today's podcast. And uh yeah, you guys are a blessing, and and let's keep going for the Lord. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Zach.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:34

Thank you, Zach.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

Yeah, thank you. Well, I love getting to work with those three, and I love seeing most of all, God show up in incredible ways and bring a lot of new life to a church that um has a lot more new life to go. So we're grateful to God and all that he's done and the good shepherd to King of Kings transition and merge. And again, if you want to know more about what King of Kings is like, you can go to kingofkings.org, or if you're considering being uh getting into a merge, whether that's on the sending or the joining side, you can email me, Zach at redletterchallenge.com, and I'd be happy to share a little bit more of our process with you. Hope this conversation blessed you. And uh big thanks to Hodos, our sponsor for today. You can go to hodos H O D O S Way, W-A-Y-HODOSWay.com, and get more information on the new nonprofit ministry that's launching for 18 to 29-year-olds, uh, where we are in 2027 going to be having a Lutheran young adult gathering. It's gonna be awesome. Check it out, put your email in, stay up to date. And hey, if you haven't yet, subscribe or follow on whatever platform. That way you don't miss next week's episode of Red Letter Disciple. God bless you and have a great week.