Beyond Sunday

Introduction: The Heart of the Matter

• King of Kings Church

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Dina, Julie, and Pastor Greg talk about what it really means to give first and how generosity shapes our hearts toward God. From honest conversations about tithing and trust to practical steps like the 40-Day Giving Challenge, they explore how releasing what we hold tightly—money, time, or attention—opens the door to deeper faith and lasting joy.

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SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our message series and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dina Newsome, and I have some wonderful leader guests today, our two head honchos. Go ahead and introduce yourselves.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, I'm Julie Easley, the executive director here at King of Kings. And I'm Greg Griffith.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so we are diving into the first week of Giving Challenge, the brand new red letter challenge book that we are looking into that our own pastor Zach Zender has written and is speaking on. And in light of this Giving Challenge, where we're talking about giving and we are talking a little about money, my opening question for you guys is what's a childhood memory about money that you have? It can be good, it can be like a horrifying nightmare. What's a childhood memory of money that you can think of? Your childhood or maybe your kids, if you okay, so this happened fairly recently.

SPEAKER_01:

So my great-grandmother used to send my kids' birthday money in a card, and you know, they would spend it. And I had saved all of those cards. And for some reason, I was just going through a bunch of boxes and I opened up a card and found 20 bucks that had been given to Tom when he turned one. So I gave it to him 25 years later, and he I said, spend it carefully. He said, I'm not spending this, I'm saving it. It's from my great grandma. So it's pretty cute and fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I had an uncle, uncle Ralph, and every time he would come by, he would always just give every kid that was in the area um of the family, he'd give them a dollar and just say, Here you go. This is ice cream money. Make sure you go get ice cream. So um I just always remember that, and that was fun. And it was always a fun shiny dollar or you know, fun crisp dollar bill. And so yeah, it was cool.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, when my oldest daughter was little, um, with the church that we went to at the time, my dad was an usher and he, so they would pass the baskets and she called him papa. And so this one day she was, she would always have her little quarter she would get to put in the baskets, and she was so excited to put that quarter in the baskets. And then this day, grandpa was passing the baskets, and she was just enamored with that. And the whole time in the service, like while they're walking around, she's like, You got it, Papa, you got the basket, you got it, Papa, you got the money. Don't drop the money, Papa. That's so sweet. I got my money, Papa. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It was mortifying for me as a parent at the time, but I look back on it now with much love.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

So um, Zach was really open about talking about this series, may make us a little bit uncomfortable when we talk about giving. And that is something that maybe we are gonna feel called out on. And I really liked um he kind of opened with uh talking about a science experiment that someone had done with these birds and the African grays versus the blue-headed macaws. How did that experiment speak to you? Or what did what did it make you think of? For me, I really could relate to the um the blue-headed macaws, where I think I would, you know, instinctively on my own if I wasn't thinking of others, just I'm just gonna keep that little nut or little treat for myself. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I agree. I mean, I I think about generosity is something that I need to, it's probably not in always instinctual. Sometimes it is, but um, it's something I really need to think about. So I was impressed by those birds who probably don't have the thinking skills of a human, just being so willing to give. And like all almost all of them did. But um, yeah, it's something it's kind of a it's kind of an indictment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and for me, I mean, my lead spiritual gift is generosity. Is that and so um you know, honestly, generosity is not something I struggle with um at all uh with my own or anything like that. I don't, I I really, really don't think about it too much. So so I I found it interesting that um there are other birds in that. And I do think we see other spots in this Canadian geese. Um, you know, if if one is injured, uh one from the flock will always drop back and stay with it while it heals, and then and then when it recovers, then both will take back off and head back to where they were going and then rejoin their group. And so, you know, I think God always builds within creation all of us of this desire of togetherness in some way. And so, um, so yeah, so I I don't know. I think the bird thing I found interesting. I'm not sure that I gave much more thought to it.

SPEAKER_02:

It's just because you're not a bird person.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't like birds. I I own two, but I don't like them.

SPEAKER_02:

So one of the statements that Pastor Zach made was at its core generosity is discipleship. He said, It's impossible to be a stingy disciple. How did that strike you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I mean it's it's true. I mean, I think right at the core of a disciple, it means that we are always pointing people and bringing people closer to Jesus and living like Jesus. Um and and Jesus is reminding us that this whole world, he is the creator, God is the creator, we are the created, um, everything belongs to him. Genesis one is I mean, we're doing it now. We spent three weeks in just Genesis one, and it's just a reminder of that um God is setting us out as Yahweh Elohim, the Lord your God, who is sovereign over all things. And so for a disciple, uh we we have to be a disciple who's following and being more like Jesus and generous, knowing that none of this is ours, whether it's money, whether it's our families, everything it's all a gift and entrusted. So for sure, um you you you can't, and this is even our faith. If it's like, well, this is my faith, but I don't share it because I'm afraid of what's going to happen. It's really hard to say you're a disciple. It really is. It doesn't mean you have to shout from the rooftops, but man, we do have to live our and share our faith.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, along those lines, I think what Zach had described a disciple as is someone who's being like and doing like their leader. Well, Jesus was just the ultimate giver of his life, but also on earth of his time. And right, he wasn't hoarding money for himself. He wasn't saying, here's all this private time that I need. Um, he was just always giving. And then ultimately we see that on the cross. So Jesus was is a generous giver, the ultimate and generous givers. And so if we want to be and do like him, we need to do the same.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

That's really good. Being um generous is not always one of the first things I think of when I think of being a disciple. I think of being kind and caring and empathetic and and um joyful and those type of things. But this was a good reminder for me of oh, how valuable and how important that is. And like you said, that it was all what that Jesus was, all generosity.

SPEAKER_00:

So well, and it was the early church, right? So I mean it says acts, right? That they came and gave everything so that no one had any need amongst them. And so, right, when we're talking about, and oops, the acts church is not the church then, it's the church now. And so, right, how are we living that out for sure?

SPEAKER_02:

So, one of the verses that Pastor Zach mentioned was Matthew 6, 21, for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. How do you reflect this in your own life, or how do you see this in your in your daily life?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for me, it's not as much about giving or money. It's for me personally, it's self. So my treasure is I I love myself. I can be, I can be tremendously selfish. Um, and so um, so for me, I'm always fighting against that. Of my treasure needs to be to love my neighbors as I love myself. Um, a lot of times when I am out of my spiritual rhythms and routines, and I'm out of a rhythm of living for for Jesus and being like my leader and following my leader, um, it will be love myself, not love my neighbors as myself. So so that it is very true. Um, I think your your treasure is where your heart will be. It's what is your treasure?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. If I think about it in regards to money, I think about tithes and offerings and wanting to be faithful in giving a tithe to the church and then giving over and above. And when I do that, I you you feel more naturally invested in what's happening. You want to see money used well. You want to see it being used for the biggest impact. And for me and my job here at the church, it's trying to ensure that we're we're doing those kinds of things. Um, and then, you know, other places where we're giving, like we sponsor a child who's in Guatemala. And I'm interested in what's going on there and what's going on in his life. I mean, all of those things speak to, you know, I've put my treasure, some of my treasure there, and I really care.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, at my last job, I and a coworker of mine would do some consulting for churches where we would look at um ways to improve maybe like a side business for them to improve their income that they would have in their church. And one of the first things that my coworker would say is, let me see your budget, because that's going to tell me where your values are, you know, what you're putting the most money into. And that doesn't equate dollar for dollar because you have building upkeep and you have staffing that you have to pay for that are often large expenditures. But when he was looking at ministry breakdowns, they would say, Oh, we really value kids' ministry, but they would have a very, very small budget for it and very large budgets for maybe other ministries. And he would say, This is not telling me the same thing that you're telling me. And he would reflect on this verse, you know, that this is what you're, you know, God has given you this money to utilize as a church to share him with your community and how are you best using your resources in it, and really would dive into this verse and looking at that through those eyes. And so that's what I kept thinking of when Zach was talking about that. I don't know how it really reflects for me in my daily life. I I I try to be very, I'm very logistical. So, like I've gotten my X dollars that that's what goes here, and then you know, my X time that that's what goes here. Like I'm just kind of parceled it all out that way. And I know some people are very emotional about their giving, or like he was talking about you give when you feel stirred or stuff. And that was not me. I'm very like, okay, it says 10%. I'm gonna strive for my 10%. And sometimes I can make it and sometimes I can't make it, you know, depending on what job I have or what my life uh style is. But um, I really like just that he focused so much on that and really brought it back to I think this is a verse that we overlook sometimes.

SPEAKER_00:

I had a predecessor who I it wasn't for a healthy reason in any stretch of the imagination, but it it's pretty cool. And then it led me to kind of a different thought, which was he would he would give every week and he would increase his giving each week by one penny. And the reason he did that is he didn't trust actually that they were always uh tracking and giving him credit for his giving. Uh so he knew then that that the end of the year, if it was all the it would go one through 52. Um, and then and then, but what ended up happening was he would just continue to roll that over. And over time, he ended up um I I I think I think somewhere I I think he was probably making this was in the early 2000s, probably making about 70,000 a year, um, and giving about 18,000 a year. Um, and and again, by a one penny increment, it was never, and again, all four of his kids went to private school. He paid for their colleges, he had cars, he had, you know, but but he just had learned to live on what he had, but always was giving. And this is the Malachi III principle. And then for me, one of the things I always strive to think about, and we're we're really close. I'm like probably within a few years of being able to do this, of that what it will be like when the largest check or the largest amount given each month will be to my church. And uh, and and I I can't wait for that day. Like, that will be such a celebratory day to me to say, like, truly, the most I'm giving is giving to a church I love. And what I love about God's biblical value of tithing and generosity and of giving is it really is a loss of control. We don't have the ability when we give to a church to go, you have to use money this way. Or I mean, what we're really saying is we're saying you're carrying us out in the kingdom of God, and I trust God. Not not necessarily even I trust you, I trust God to be to be good. Now, those who work in churches and those who are nonprofits have a responsibility, right? And so great for them is the accountability to the Lord uh on that. And so I I love it. I love the whole process.

SPEAKER_02:

I remember the day when my dad came and told us, and I was probably a teenager at the time, where he said, you know what, this year I'm actually gonna give 10% of my income to our church. Like, and he was so proud. And I'm sure in my teenage snottiness, I was like, Oh, big deal. Can I buy this now? You know, but I think of that often, like that that was a moment he wanted to come and share with us that that was a milestone for him.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, that's pretty cool that he shared that. I yeah, that's yeah, I I I think as as parents who are raising disciples, we have to be open with our children about our faith journey, including our finances. Um, finances I don't think are private. I I think when we're talking about giving, I think it's it's something that we don't brag about, but it it's it is something that we do share and we say, you know what, as a as a tither, here's the blessings I've received. And it's not always financial, um, but it certainly is spiritual and emotional.

SPEAKER_02:

Where do you think the the shame comes from in talking about money? Or I don't know if it would be shame or, you know, where people are embarrassed to talk about their giving or to talk about specific dollar amounts. What do you think? I mean, uh I know it comes from Satan, but you know, like what do you what how do we think this grew so much? Because I feel like it's different now than it was 20 years ago or 20 years before that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I I I think, well, one, I I think we live in such a comparison society. Um, and I think that's just been exasperated over the last 20 years. Um, and I will say this comparison is from Satan. The moment I compare myself to someone else, that is not by God. Um, I'm never called to compare because first of all, God has gifted me in ways that are perfect for his kingdom and for me to live that and out. And my gifts are gonna be different than other people's gifts. Okay. And and other people are gonna have greater gifts. Okay. And other people are gonna have greater responsibilities than I do. And if I want to look and say, I need to have I I I don't I don't think equality is is biblical, right? I am in in this respect, like God gives to everyone where they're called and gifted and suited to do the best for his kingdom. Um my pinky does not have the same responsibility as my heart. Equally valuable, but different roles and responsibilities. And I love both greatly. I would not want to give up my heart. I would not want to give up my pinky. Right? But but so so I think I think some of that is it is all from Satan. And so the comparison thing is is there and it's real. I also hate when people say it's not equal gifts, it's equal sacrifice, because that's not true either. Right? The sacrifice of Dhaka in Uganda that gave us a chicken was way more than a sacrifice that I make when I say, you know, I'm gonna be a part of let's go, and we're not gonna do a bunch of vacations this year. Like, that's a sacrifice selfishly on my side, but in no way did I say, My kids are not gonna have two eggs for the next couple of days or until we replace that chicken, and we're gonna have to figure out how to find the eggs. But I love these people who came to my house, so I'm gonna give them a live chicken. Like, so so the sacrifice of the widow's might versus the rich person who says, Yeah, this year I'm gonna give this amount, but it doesn't. I actually just heard a story about this. A guy, a guy said his um a guy gave a very large gift to their church and and he said, Thank you, thank you, thank you. And finally, the guy said, Please stop saying thank you. And he goes, Why? And he goes, Because it really wasn't that much of a sacrifice for me. And he goes, Well then you need to pray about what you need to give so that my thank you actually matters. And I thought, wow, that's that's true.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's convicting.

SPEAKER_00:

Well awareness, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I don't know if we necessarily always feel ashamed about money, but I do think that it's something that people can be pretty private about because it is a such a discipleship measure for the believer. And if you feel like I'm not doing this, you probably don't want to talk about it very much. I was listening to a podcast where someone said, you know, when you're putting your hand towards a hot stove, you feel the heat and you want to pull it your hand away. And sometimes if we're we're not giving sacrificially, our instinct is not to get closer to that fire of conviction, it's to move away. And I think money is something that can really be a snare and an entrapment. I and I'm not pointing the finger at anybody else. I'm talking to myself as well.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So another thing that Zach talked about was he asked a question. What if the key to gaining a godlike heart is being generous first? How do you hope people respond to that question?

SPEAKER_01:

I think just trusting in the goodness of God and that the things that he asks of us are not for our detriment, but only for our benefit and for our flourishing. So when he commands us to be a generous people and to give, he's doing that because he knows what's best for our hearts and how we'll best flourish in life. So he's not saying, hey, I want you to sacrifice so that you're miserable. He's saying, I want you to sacrifice so that you can know the joy that I experienced when I sacrificed everything for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, don't hear me when I say this. I I do believe this is a this is a giving series and uh the book is about giving. So one thing though is generosity is not just about finances. Um Tim Keller uh said that as Americans, we can probably get we actually may even be more of a generous nation than we'd like to give credit for. Right. So this is um especially millennials are getting this. Um this is why at the grocery stores, at your banks, right, do you wanna do you wanna round up? Right. And so so generosity is financially is flourishing, right? Tithing's different, and so that's a that's generosity and tithing are not synonyms. Um but but generosity also is more than finances. And an area that I find where for me that I'm really working on, as Tim Keller was talking about, is he said, he said, I think, and he was talking about New Yorkers, and I identified with this, not because I'm a New Yorker, um, but uh he said he said here in New York, we need to be generous with our time. Our time is actually our most valuable commodity. And so we say, How are you doing? but we don't really want to know. We walk past you and say, hello, but please don't stop me and say, Hey, I would love to tell you something about my heart. And I find myself in a phone call or in a conversation or with things, and my time is where I need to start responding generously greater first. And so I I think I hope people would say, where is God challenging them in generosity outside of financial as well? But where in generosity is God challenging them to be generous with whatever their most valuable commodity is? And for me, right now, my most valuable commodity is time. Not because I'm busy, but because I try to maximize as much as I can throughout a day with everything that I'm doing. And so um sometimes I can find myself saying, ooh, that doesn't fit into my schedule of the day. And yet if I give that generously first, um, I find my day's actually been better than I would have ever planned.

SPEAKER_02:

And usually there's room for it then.

SPEAKER_00:

There there always there always is room, there always is room. I was just talking to someone about this, right? Like, I don't know, it's a little tight. Maybe I'm gonna soap box. Maybe you guys can edit this out if you want. But you know, we talk work-life balance, and I'm always like, what does that mean? Right? And then I and then I actually did the math. Am I right, Julie? You would probably know. Are there 122 hours in a week? Is that right?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm so bad at math. I am the wrong person to ask.

SPEAKER_00:

But if I recall, I believe I saw somewhere that there's like 122 hours.

SPEAKER_02:

168 total hours, like 24 hours. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00:

168, even better for me. So I want to work. Think about this for a minute.

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe it's 122 taking out sleeping. Okay, maybe.

SPEAKER_00:

But either way, like at 168 hours. So if my work week is 40 hours a week, I've got four times that. Right? Like four times that I'm not working. Like, so I I like I'm starting to struggle in my head of going, like, what is my work life balance wrong? Like, because it looks like the life balance is actually out of balance. Right? And so, yes, there is always time. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, like there is always time. And so, like, when I go, I didn't have time this week to work out, there were 122 extra hours. What did I do? Like, what do you mean I didn't have time?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Yeah, that's where the phone can be such a trap. I mean, think about how productive people were 100 years ago because they didn't have the phase.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, an hour goes by and I watch three cat videos and a Jimmy Fallon joke or something.

SPEAKER_00:

Was it Michael Scott who said he saw YouTube and like spent five days watching cat videos? Yeah. Yeah, YouTube.

SPEAKER_02:

Cat videos are amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

That's not my spiritual weakness, but maybe I need to check out some other videos. There you go.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, okay, so this is week one of six that we're gonna be diving into this, and our Connect groups are looking at it. People are hopefully going through it in their homes. What do you really want people to take from this series? And what really, like, what's your final takeaways from this first message? Or as we kick off, what are you hoping for our members to really like just dive in and and and know more about this?

SPEAKER_01:

I think just that people wouldn't take their treasure, whatever it is, treasure of time, treasure of money, treasure of um gifts that God's given to you, talents and abilities, and putting them in the places where God's heart is so our hearts can look more like his.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I would invite and encourage everyone to listen to the prompt that the Lord is giving to you. And I think that in this, God will speak to you over the next 40 days how to be generous that will um make a life greater in there. Um, I was convicted recently when someone was telling me how he tries to live each day with grace for every person, and he was having a bad day and things weren't going well, and the guy at the grocery store wasn't being kind to him, and he was so mad he was going to go tell a manager. And right before he got to the manager, he just heard a prompt from God who said, Go back. And he went back to the man and he said, Sir, and the guy looks at him and goes, What do you want now? And he goes, I need to tell you I'm sorry. I came in with a bad attitude and I put that on you. And he said, The guy balled his fists up and he covered his face and he brought his fist down and he said, I'm really new at this. I forgive you. And and and he listened to the prompt of God to be generous with the grace from God. And that allowed someone to be able to start to use the grace of God in his life. And so I really want to see people I want to see me like like listening to the voice of God and then actually doing it, not ignoring it, and not and not being selfish, but being generous to what God's calling me to do.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I really liked what Zach talked about, what the world says versus what Jesus said. And I wrote them down and I'm gonna read them. So give me a second. But I I just listening to that prompting, here it is. Like this is literally what the scripture says. And the world says, protect what's yours and spend it while you have it. Give only if there's something in it for you, and that money is your security equals security. But Jesus says it is more blessed to give than to receive. Life does not consist in an abundance of possessions, to whom much is given, much will be required. You cannot serve both God and money. And what good is it for someone to gain the whole world yet forfeit their soul? I really liked those. And I thought, okay, that's what I'm gonna like. I wrote them down so I can keep it on my desk as we go through this series and really find, okay, how am I listening to those? How am I working out those in my own life? What am I focusing on that Jesus says that is not what the world says? Because it's so easy just to listen to the world. Wow. Any other final takeaways as we wrap up? Looking looking forward to the rest of the series, and we'll hear more about the Giving Challenge. Until then, let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.

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