Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday is a podcast where we dive into what our Church is up to, what's happening in society, go deeper into topics from Sunday mornings, and hear leadership talks from Pastor Greg Griffith. This is a podcast of King of Kings Church in Omaha, NE. Learn more at kingofkings.org.
Beyond Sunday
When Your Integrity is Interrupted
Dina, Pastor Greg, and Kate kick off the Pardon This Interruption series by looking at the moment in Mark’s gospel when even Jesus’ own family questioned him. They explore what integrity looks like when our words and actions align, how to handle doubt and misunderstanding, and how God’s grace meets us in life’s interruptions to bring reconciliation and hope.
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Thanks for listening!
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our message series and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dena Newsome and I am honored to have a couple of great guests today. Feel free to introduce yourselves.
Speaker 2:I'm Greg.
Speaker 1:And I'm Kate Solberg.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for being here today. I don't know if you guys know it, but today is international International, not for being here today. Yeah, I don't know if you guys know it, but today is international International, not just national Sudoku Day.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hate those, do you?
Speaker 1:My question is are you a Sudoku person or what like word game or number game do you like? Is there one that really you know you have to do?
Speaker 2:You're a crossword person, so fun thing is not about me and she's staying at our house, so tonight I'll have to tell her. My mother-in-law does a sudoku thing every single day and so at our house every morning she will print the sudoku sheets and then do those. So she prints them out on our printer and then, uh, does one probably. She's up around 5 am, does, does a sudoku and then is done. So apparently it's supposed to help like stave off all cybers yeah, like there's.
Speaker 1:It activates pieces of your brain, supposedly to help with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine, mine doesn't work.
Speaker 3:I'm. I like the wordle. You're the one.
Speaker 1:Is there only one of me? I think so. No, there's two Cause I like that too, so, there's at least two of us. So does one of our volunteers yeah?
Speaker 3:I used to do it with my class at the end of the day, like, you know, just something fun to end the day with. But then I was like you guys are messing it up, you're not doing it right, so I just do it by myself now.
Speaker 2:You should do it at the end of the day with Peter and see, I think that'd be so fun to try a Wordle with Peter.
Speaker 3:No comment.
Speaker 1:I love word finds. I enjoy crossword puzzles or Sudoku now and then, but I really like word finds Are those word searches.
Speaker 2:Is that what it is? I've never heard it as a word find. Oh, that's what I called it growing up, I guess. Oh, really, Okay yeah word search word find whatever. Okay, word searches, Okay yeah yeah, okay, word find is fine.
Speaker 3:I actually bought my first crossword puzzle book and I thought, ooh, I've crossed over into middle age for sure. Now, Just because they say like it's not good to look at your phone before bed, like the 30 minutes or 40. I'm like I'm going to get a crossword book and sure enough, I've gotten some judgmental looks from my children, but that's fine, but yeah.
Speaker 1:I like those type of puzzle things. Those are fun. Do you feel better going to bed?
Speaker 3:after you've gotten some. Yes, and I like to read best before, but I don't always have a book I'm dying to read, so then I got my backup crossword book to do so.
Speaker 1:I think if I did crosswords before bed, I would like not fall asleep because I'd still be thinking about the ones that. I'd be obsessing about them what's this one? And then I'd have to get up and see if that worked.
Speaker 3:No, I don't think one thought of it after I closed the book.
Speaker 1:It's good night.
Speaker 2:I hate crosswords.
Speaker 1:For a reason, or just you always have I never, can figure them out.
Speaker 2:I've never been able to. I don't like them at all.
Speaker 3:I do them with pencil and then you know, so that you can swap it up. Yeah, then you're not frustrated.
Speaker 2:I would do them with a Sharpie. No, and the lines don't matter, so my words work.
Speaker 3:No matter what no matter what, no matter what. That sounds terrible.
Speaker 1:One of my grandmas used to do the crossword puzzle in the newspaper and I used to sit and watch her and every once in a while she would have a square that she divided into half.
Speaker 3:I put two letters because it was the only answer that didn't fit I like that Never thought of that.
Speaker 2:That's a great idea, okay.
Speaker 3:That's a great idea.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, this week we started a new message series here at King of Kings called Pardon, this Interruption, and we got to hear from our campus pastor here at Millard, pastor Seth Flick. This is his first message series that he's preaching and this is really focusing on the book of Mark, the gospel of Mark and Greg. Would you give us? There's a quirky thing about the book of Mark and the way that this fits into interruptions. Can you kind of summarize that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, super cool. Actually, it was Kevin McClure who brought this about a year ago. And then it was like, oh wow, this is really neat. So, yeah, jesus, and Mark Mark records some events of Jesus and some stories of Jesus, where he starts with one and then, like this middle story doesn't seem to relate at all, and then this end story just ties everything back together and so it's almost like a sandwich, where you're like I've got two pieces of bread and then all of a sudden there's like liverwurst in the middle and you're like what've got two pieces of bread and then all of a sudden there's like liverwurst in the middle and you're like, what you know, can they work together? And then it's like, oh wow, this is a good. I think liverwurst sandwiches are terrible, but anyways, I don't know if I've ever had one, but yeah, so that's, that's what's happening, and so that's the interruption is like you're just like where's the story from? And then there's a masterful way at the end that just brings it all back together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really unique and I had never heard that talked about before this came up either. So, yeah, that's really interesting. So what spoke to you guys this week? What are you taking beyond Sunday from our first week of Pardon, this Interruption?
Speaker 3:I just thought about after listening to the whole sermon, the scripture Hebrews 4.15, really came to my mind about how this high priest understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin. And I think it's very relatable to have people misjudge you and your motives, what you're doing, and also your family, and that is rough. Like if there's two groups of people that are supposed to like have your back, it would be your family and the people in the church, the religious leaders, and both of these people were like nope, no, you're wrong and actually it's Satan working through you. Like that was harsh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for me beyond Sunday was a little bit of, probably more of just a re minder. Um, you know, luther talks about that in the um eighth commandment, that we're to put the best construction on everything, and yet naturally we don't do this. And I think this is why, like you know, if I, if I give someone a compliment, you know if I'm sitting there, and it's you know, seth and Zach are there and I go Seth, that was like one of the greatest messages I've ever heard. There's this piece that I have to go like oh, zach, your messages are good too.
Speaker 2:Right reason we have to do that is because we naturally assume and I think it's you know, just in our minds that we're always putting that well, if someone's saying this one thing, it must mean they mean the bad on the other side, and and and this is that reminder that, um, we don't have to look at the bad on the other side Like a best construction is, like let's give everyone the grace that that just because I say you know that you're a great painter doesn't mean that I think another person who paints isn't good. You can both be equally as good, and so, or I can find value in all those things, and so, yeah, I found it a good reminder for me to think about that too.
Speaker 1:That was exactly what spoke to me the most about this. I really liked how Seth really hit on the idea of is when you build one thing up, it doesn't mean you have to push another thing down.
Speaker 1:And we just naturally go to that so much anymore, and I don't remember when that started Like, I don't remember it being like that when I was a child many moons ago, but it just seems it comes so natural right now. So one of the main things that Seth talked about in this message is integrity, and he gave us this definition of integrity when the truth lines up with your word and proof. So have you guys ever had your integrity questioned and if so, how did you handle it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean I think everyone has at some point, and from small things right, when you say something and then they tell you you're wrong. I mean I still remember as a kid one time I was at the doctor's and he had found something in my mom and he was like we should. My mom was a doctor and I was in the room and he said, well, we need to test your son because this could be genetic and she's like my son's adopted, we don't need to test him. And he looked at me and I guess I resembled my mom and he goes well, that's not true. I don't know why you wouldn't want to do the testing. And so she was like what. And so she was like what, and so she was super upset. I think she found a new doctor.
Speaker 2:But even I mean I think it happens all the time I think people think our motives are something. As a pastor, when I hear people say that the church only cares about money, I go. That's an integrity issue. If you really think that that's why I'm a pastor is to try to get money like, then I'm in the wrong business and that's not. I think it's like a sharp sword that just dives into our pit. Like it hurts when someone questions my integrity.
Speaker 3:When you brought up that medical example, I thought of when I had my first child, ben, and I went in and I was in labor. I was very uncomfortable and they hooked me up to the machines and they're like you are not in labor, this is not labor, you're not having any contractions. And I was like, yes, yes, I am. And they're like it's your first time having a baby, you don't know. And then the nurse was like, oh, we don't have the machine turned to the right nodule or whatever. Oh no. And I was highly in labor and so I just wanted to cry because I was like, how are you telling me that I'm not in labor? But thank the Lord, you know she figured out what knob to turn on and Ben was born healthy. But that is rough. That is rough when people look at you and you're like you're not telling the truth and you're like I am.
Speaker 1:I think the hardest situations and there's a couple of times in my life that I can think of it or when maybe a friendship is not working out or something's coming apart, and like there is a case where a friend and I were just—we couldn't work out our differences, like we were just—had become at different points in our lives, and I was trying to apologize for that, like it was what was happening and we likely weren't going to be friends anymore, and I was apologizing that that hurt. And she was just telling me, no, I wasn't sorry. Like, no, you can change this. No, you're not sorry. No, you're not.
Speaker 1:And I just felt I remember being at the end of my rope because I felt like I was doing everything to try to work things out for a while, and she was just telling me how I felt and I remember how hurt I felt about that. That, no, my heart is really breaking in this moment and I'm sorry that you don't think that I'm being honest, but, yeah, it really can, like you said, cut very deeply. Yeah, so Seth moved on to talk about in Mark, where Jesus has this time where his family, his brothers and even his mother are kind of accusing him of being, for the most part, crazy, like they're calling him out. What's your reaction to Jesus' family being the ones in this situation to really question his integrity, like of all the people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never like to look back and be like, how could they do that? I think, again, this is the Monday morning quarterback, right, so we're not in this situation. I get it like, yes, mary pondered and treasured these things up in her heart. She knew that her son was, but again, their expectation of who this Messiah was going to be was radically different than what God ended up revealing. And so I can probably look and say like they're just waiting for him to do what they think he's supposed to do and then he doesn't.
Speaker 2:And they're like there's always a question like are you the right one? Like you know, I mean, this is when John the baptizer is getting about to be beheaded and die and sins, and it's like, hey, I just need to know. Like, am I putting the hope in the right one? Like, help me understand this. And Jesus is like tell him, here's what he's seen and rest and know. So I think for me, I look at it and go. I would not have been different If I were the brother of Jesus in that day. I would have had the same reactions. I would have thought why aren't you getting rid of the Romans? Why are we taking so long? Why aren't you setting up the land even greater than what David had built? And so like what's taking so long? Maybe you're not the right one if you're really struggling on this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the same, like when you read the Exodus and you're tempted to be like Israelites, come on, like really, and then I'm like every time I'm, then I'm like I would have done the same thing. I do do the same thing. I don't learn the lesson the first time, and there's many times when I should have just kept my mouth shut when I didn't and said something instead. Have just kept my mouth shut when I didn't and said something instead. And, like you said, jesus' family, they had no idea what was about to happen and who he was and how he was going to do it.
Speaker 3:And people were looking at him, at the family, like this is you know, your family? Like what are you going to? This is not right. And so I'm sure, like you said, I would have said something similar or something worse. You know, but I love that at least in the scripture you know there's no sign of Jesus rebuking that. And he knew he had to have known. He knew he had to have known. People are going to be so confused for a long time and he was, he bared with them.
Speaker 2:And this is what I love about it. So when people say like can I be a Christian and have doubts, can I be a Christian in question, can I be a Christian and say like is this real? I want to go? You better be, because the scriptures are chock full of doubters, questioners, those who are like wait, why aren't you doing it this way? And so I would say can you be a Christian? Absolutely, because you're a human, who Jesus gave that. And actually that then helps us look and see that our God is a God who doesn't say you've got to have me figured out and how dare you. Our God is a God who meets us where we're at with the grace that's big enough to carry us through our doubts, our questions and our concerns.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, I think of Mary at this time and just even though all these amazing things had happened and the angels told her this, I still can't imagine wrapping my human earthly brain around what Jesus is supposed to be and the idea of even his brothers, you know, understanding who he is and how they can't even imagine what this really means. But they do put all of these earthly expectations of what he's going to do. And then, when the scribes come in, the religious leaders and have the same thing because, again, this is a broken, sinful earth and there's no way that we can really understand what God is doing through this.
Speaker 2:And remember, their concept from Mary to the religious leaders was a savior, not from our sins. Their concept was a savior from the oppression of the Romans and a restoration of the promised land. And so that's what. Even that, he will be the savior of the world to Mary, she's just thinking yeah, get rid of the Romans, why wouldn't we? Yes, this is awesome, god, you've constantly done this. It's been years and years of occupation and then you set us free, and so this is just another layer that they're thinking. And so, when it doesn't happen, their frustration, their questioning, they're like it's very normal.
Speaker 3:It kind of shows how people really haven't changed too much. I mean people's every election they're like, oh, this is the political leader that's going to do it, and it never happens because it's a human every time. So we're not going to be, there's not going to be a leader like Jesus in a political realm until he returns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really great comparison. So another mention that Seth made was of the book A Child Called it, where this mother kind of boosted her own self-esteem by calling her child an it and not by his name the entire time that she was raising him, and he talked about how that, in our comparison culture, can sometimes feel, maybe where we are. So how does the comparison to being an it speak to you, and what does God say about having that type of comparison?
Speaker 3:I was just talking to a gal who comes to the Northwest campus and she it was crazy. It's not crazy because God orchestrates these things all the time, but before the service I had listened to it, the first service at nine, and she came to 11 and I said, oh, I think you're really going to get a lot out of this message, because I thought of you as I was listening to it and she told me we talked about a few things she's going through that are difficult in life. But she came down to the fact that she was having trouble forgiving herself and I didn't realize how powerful that can be. That can be, you know, and it doesn't make sense. If God can forgive us, why would we not forgive ourselves as hard as it can be? So I thought that was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, really the story resonated with me. I didn't know my grandmother's mother for a whole variety of reasons. Also, she had passed away, but I had heard enough of her folklore and she was not a nice woman, she was a terrible woman. She hated other women, including her daughters and including her granddaughter, her only granddaughter and she was vocal about her hatred of them and told them that they were valueless and worthless and told them that they, you know, never could make it on their own and that they weren't even helpful to their own families and all these things.
Speaker 2:And so when I heard that story, it just— kind of triggered me back to the dysfunction that comes, and, and I think, for me first of all, I'm always reminded that every human being is capable of being a monster, because we're sinners and so so I think, I think we can all, we can all find ways, whether it's a family member, which we can't even really always imagine, or whether it's just a person that we have zero respect or tolerance for, to downgrade them and to demean them.
Speaker 2:This is humanity's sinfulness at its brightness. It's Satan's greatest trick, which is to just kind of say who are you and you're not worthy of God's love and you're not worthy to be a God's child. And so I think when I think about what does God think about that? I think he thinks that's why I had to send Jesus, and I think he knows that he's a God that needs to restore our value of who we are, that we were created in His image, and that day, when he returns, that image will be full and bright and no longer veiled and no longer fractured.
Speaker 1:I can remember when I was a teenager and in youth group we kind of did a study talking about self-esteem and self-worth and there was a piece of it that was talking about holding grudges and it talked about what holding grudges did to your own self-worth not the other person, but a part of it.
Speaker 1:The teacher said you have to remember that every person that you encounter, whether that's a good encounter or a bad encounter, is also a child of God and he created them intricately, uniquely, especially, and loves them just as much as he loves you.
Speaker 1:And to a teenager who had plenty of people that I hated, you know I was like whatever you know. But I think of that all the time as I've gotten older and even now in my life, people that I really struggle with. God created them just to be that way and I don't know what they're going through and I don't know what struggles they are and they can't be an it to me, you know, because they're not an it to God. They are one of His children, just like how precious he sees me. And that is sometimes really hard to wrap my human brain around and more so hard to act on. But it is something I try to remember in my encounters. Then there was reconciliation at the end, the nice little bow at the end of the story, which doesn't always happen, but in this case there was reconciliation with this family. We couldn't imagine anything different with Jesus.
Speaker 3:But how can this message of family reconciliation through Christ apply to maybe some broken relationships in your own life or in our listeners' lives? I thought of the analogy where, like holding a grudge or holding on to unforgiveness, is like swallowing poison hoping it's going to kill the other person. Because when you talked about your, was it your great-grandmother, like I feel terrible for her children, but I can't imagine what it felt like to be hurt too, to have that much hate and anger in you. That would be terrible and um. But yes, jesus brought restoration when he said when we are his children, we are not a part of his family. And when I was growing up, my parents didn't—they were not believers yet, but I had precious friends and their mothers kind of mentored me and I saw what faith grow up in the faith, and I know that because he did it for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think forgiveness is at such the heart of this, of reconciliation, and it really does begin with yourself. If you can't forgive yourself, you can't forgive others. It's just impossible to give something that you can't receive, and so we really have to look at this. This is also why Paul writes to the Corinthians and says don't come to the Lord's table if you have a grudge against someone else. Like, go and solve that first. And almost in this respect of like, that's more important than you getting, like, go and solve that first. And and almost in this respect of like that's more important than you getting like feeding yourself with the eternal salvation of Jesus at that moment, like, like, fix that first, um and so. So that's really powerful to think about, and I think I think for me, when I look at reconciliation, first of all, those who I'm struggling to have reconciliation and I've preached about this before I for me, I then have to start praying that they're blessed, and so, like those that I have and we all have people that we struggle with I actually, when I have a thought in my head with them and I can tell it's like not a good thought. Actually, when I have a thought in my head with them and I can tell it's like not a good thought. I then say, okay, lord, like just bless them, like bless them immensely, like bless them in physical ways, in spiritual ways, in emotional ways, like bless them. And that's really hard to do.
Speaker 2:But it actually then frees me up in a weird way and I also remind myself to I can forgive, but it doesn't mean that I have to have a relationship. It doesn't mean that they have to sit at my dinner table and I may be able to say, hey, we're good, I forgive you, but also for your health, my health. We just can't have relationships together, and that might happen. We'll have that eternal relationship with Jesus at the new heaven and new earth, but in this life I love you, but I also have to have boundaries with you, and until there's no more sin or darkness on my side and on your side, those boundaries have to be in place. And so that's that reminder that that reconciliation can happen and that forgiveness can happen and needs to happen, because if we don't, then it just destroys us.
Speaker 1:I really like that you mentioned praying blessings. You know asking for blessings on them. Can you give our listeners a little summary of my four, because I want to then mention something after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah because I want to then mention something after that. Yeah, yeah. So with the my four, you want to identify four people that are either far from God or maybe just a fan of God they're on the sidelines, but that you know need to come into a relationship with Jesus. So you identify them. Second, then, you just want to include them into your daily rhythms and routines of spiritual things.
Speaker 2:So prayer, you know, if you see them at the water cooler of just saying like what's going on or how can I pray for you? Or even just offering prayers of blessing and thanksgiving and gratitude, and then eventually invite them. Invite them into something that is a spiritual step, whether that's that conversation, whether that's an invitation to an event at a church, or even a conversation or a church service, something like that and then finally inspiring them to do the same with four others. And what I also love about it is this is not a do this in a year. This could take a lifetime. For one of my family members, it took me 18 years to finally get to where we invited into a spiritual conversation and now the door's open where I'm sending them Instagram reels and Bible project videos and all those things. But it was 18 years of me praying that God would open that invitation door.
Speaker 1:So I thought of that because, when I was thinking about this reconciliation, there's a person that's on my my four when we did it as a congregation. That's one of those people that I have a completely broken relationship for, but I still see this person regularly because we have people that are friends with both of us and I want them to go to heaven. So they are somebody that I am working the process, and it may take a lifetime before we get there, but I just immediately thought of that when he was talking about the reconciliation of that person on my floor. All right, so what are your final takeaways from this first message in our Pardon, this Interruption series?
Speaker 2:I can't wait for message two. I mean, I just I think this was a great. You know, here's what I love about King of Kings is just the team and everyone's so creative. But every single message is just diving us deeper into the scriptures. And, you know, even though we do a lot of topical, at the end of the day it's honestly not topical. Every one of our messages are biblical. They're just in a way that becomes really relevant and applicable, and so this message to me was one of those that I just said. This was a home run.
Speaker 3:I agree and I love that he came back around to show how Mary and James and Jude changed. And I mean Mary was there when Jesus was on the cross, faithful to the end, and James and Jude became pillars in the early church, martyrs for their faith. I mean Jesus was with them for the long game and even despite their early doubts and questions. Again it shows we're allowed. We're allowed to have doubts, we're allowed to have questions. Jesus, that will not keep Jesus from us.
Speaker 1:I really liked one of the lines. I wrote it down. That Seth said was hold the higher grace. His meaning, god's integrity, is shown through your interactions, and I was like, oh, that was a little conviction and a little all right. I got to remember that, you know, my interactions just reflect his integrity, not just my own. The other thing I wanted to mention before we go is if you don't have the King of Kings app, you should check it out. It's a free download and this month, as we're going through this series, you're going to get some pushes to get through the Book of Mark and so you can get notifications on that from the app as we go through the Book of Mark during this one. So thank you guys, so much for being here and we'll look forward to next week's message and until then, let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.
